Dynojet V. Mustang?

[Muddin_dude06]

The closest dyno to me is an inground Mustang and although I was only on it once I thought it was a nice setup. I didn't get close to the numbers I was wanting because 1. My clutch was slipping 2. Picked the worst day ever, super high humidity and hot 3. I didn't hold the brakes at all to help get the turbo going sooner... I plan on going back in two weeks possibly and hopefully all will go well this time lol If not I will try a dynojet later on...

 

[DavidTD]

We are buying a Dyno, I have spent countless hours on the phone with the techs, at all the major companies, that make dynos. Dynojet, Dynocom, Dyno Dynamics, Superflow and Mustang. An inertia dyno, like the Dynojet, simply measures accelleration rate, the quicker the speed, from A to B the higher the number. This where an overdrive ratio and the parking brake for a little loading comes in handy. Depending upon the selected start and stop speeds, be it RPM or MPH, the numbers can be higher. We manufacture products, so obviously we want a dyno that can show accurate and repeatable numbers. The real drawback is that an Eddy current dyno, typically shows lower numbers, obviously from a manufacturers standpoint, you want to make the highest numbers possible. I think regardless of the peak potential, we will buy an Eddy current, with huge absorbtion capabilities. I am glad for posts like the one from you Triton, it really brings what we have known for a long time, out into the open. I don't care what anyone says, if you aren't makeing actual boost numbers on a dyno, your peak power is going to be off.

I have to disagree with this. In some cases that can be very true but for this to be a blanket statement, this must assume that all of the pressure is making it into the engine. Boost can be result of many things, heat being just one. Back pressure on the intake side is what we measure for boost so just because you can load an engine and generate big boost numbers doesn't mean it's making it into the engine and therefore making power.

I agree with your comments on the load cell dyno. If I was making parts, I would have one because you can sustain test procedures and record some very kick butt data. A Dyno Jet 248 is very limited in what it can provide for test data. When you are looking at the load units, just make sure the braking capacity is enough to sustain the loads the big powered trucks can apply. Good luck with your research and purchase.

 

[WICKEDDIESELS]

We tested a Ford 6.0 on your dyno in Gatlinburg, it wouldn't load on the dyno enough to add fuel above level 2. The power output on the edge up to 5, from 2 showed the same power. The customer was upset and wanting to send his Edge back, we went for a drive and could easily see the difference and power gained, between the settings. I explained to him that without the MAP seeing the additional boost it would not add fuel, and he understood. It made more boost on the road than the dyno, this was a clear indicication of insufficient boost, leaving power untapped on the dyno.

 

[Timbeaux]

Why do all of those other 6.0's have no trouble on the dyno then? Is it the Edge vs. the SCT?

 

[DavidTD]

We tested a Ford 6.0 on your dyno in Gatlinburg, it wouldn't load on the dyno enough to add fuel above level 2. The power output on the edge up to 5, from 2 showed the same power. The customer was upset and wanting to send his Edge back, we went for a drive and could easily see the difference and power gained, between the settings. I explained to him that without the MAP seeing the additional boost it would not add fuel, and he understood. It made more boost on the road than the dyno, this was a clear indicication of insufficient boost, leaving power untapped on the dyno.

Shouldn't we ask why the truck needed so much load to perform? Or maybe another reason why the ran wasn't as expected. Again, BIG chargers especially singles sometimes will not light, but all stock chargers will as will most of the "street chargers". I don't remember the truck, but am sorry you weren't happy with the results.

 

[WICKEDDIESELS]

I appreciate the apology, I wasn't upset and he was really only bothered a little by it, and miffed at his results. It had a stock turbo at the time and was down about 12 psi, on the dyno. I am not condemning the dyno, just stating that in his case he did not get additional fueling, based upon the MAP reading lower boost/fueling

 

[Timbeaux]

I'm sorry, but something else was up with that truck. Every 6.0 I have seen has had no problem lighting a stock turbo on Davids machine. I have seen 12 valves with twin chargers big enough to put a stock 6.0charger inside of light on that dyno. Either that charger was screwed (been known to happen with a 6.0) or The Edge programing was goofy.

 

[WICKEDDIESELS]

Tim, it ran fine on the street. I don't think Dave actually did the dyno pull, I think it was one of the guys helping him. That could be the answer in itself, is there a different method used by operators, to get additional loading?

 

[Timbeaux]

Not really. Mike runs them the same way as David. Generally speaking, Mildly tweaked trucks(especially those with VGT turbos) light off just fine on that dyno....but the Edge may do things differently than the SCT. What kind of numbers did it make?

 

[WICKEDDIESELS]

320's maybe, I really don't remember.

 

[heinzboy]

I dynoed my Wifes 06 Ford F250 on David Dunbar's dyno and it did 371HP and 765 TQ with 37" tires and the truck had a little over 2000 miles on it with a TUNE ONLY. I was using Erics File.

 

[Dockboy]

We tested a Ford 6.0 on your dyno in Gatlinburg, it wouldn't load on the dyno enough to add fuel above level 2. The power output on the edge up to 5, from 2 showed the same power. The customer was upset and wanting to send his Edge back, we went for a drive and could easily see the difference and power gained, between the settings. I explained to him that without the MAP seeing the additional boost it would not add fuel, and he understood. It made more boost on the road than the dyno, this was a clear indicication of insufficient boost, leaving power untapped on the dyno.

This is more a function of an improperly tuned truck than it is the dyno.

Canned programming is far from optimum. Typically, to obtain the higher settings, they pile a bunch of fuel in too early. On the dyno, all that fuel kills the initial spool up time on the charger. By the time it's ready to spool, the dyno run is over. On the street, you fail to consider this slight lag in the turbo and base the power "feeling" on when the turbo hits. Although there may be a "feel" of greater power on the street as opposed to the dyno, it's not a fair comparision.


Now, take the same truck and tweak the programming so it does spool on a Dynojet, mainly by backing out tip-in fuel, and you will see better dyno numbers AND even better performance on the street as opposed to before.

 

[WICKEDDIESELS]

Guys I am talking about boost and fueling, if fueling is added based upon boost, then with lower boost numbers on the dyno, the power will be down. Its like beating my head against the wall, to get you guys to understand this.....If a truck is down 12 psi and only makes about 36, I feel that, to be substantial. If the dyno can not replicate actual boost numbers, how can maximum power be measured? On a gasoline powered forced induction application, 1 pound of boost can equal 30-40 hp, I know this is not the equivelant, however additional air, most definately equals increased power.

 

[Dockboy]

Guys I am talking about boost and fueling, if fueling is added based upon boost, then with lower boost numbers on the dyno, the power will be down. Its like beating my head against the wall, to get you guys to understand this.....If a truck is down 12 psi and only makes about 36, I feel that, to be substantial. If the dyno can not replicate actual boost numbers, how can maximum power be measured? On a gasoline powered forced induction application, 1 pound of boost can equal 30-40 hp, I know this is not the equivelant, however additional air, most definately equals increased power.

YOU are missing the point or don't fully understand the fueling tables.

While the fueling is partialy based upon boost, there are MANY other parameters in Powerstroke programming that have an effect on the amount of fueling! Throttle position, % of load, Engine Oil Temp, Intake Air Temp just to name a few but there are many more!!

The truck is down 12 psi on the dyno because the programming is over fueling too soon and too low. This basically "puts the flame out" or cools the drive charge inhibiting the charger from spooling. Spool it sooner, with less fuel and at the proper time, and the boost on the dyno will match the boost on the street



An example, I ran a much bigger single charger than the truck in question and was within 2 psi on Davids dyno, or any Dynojet for that matter, than on the street. (55 psi dyno, 57-58 psi street)

It's the tuning, not the dyno!!

 

[SINNER]

This is more a function of an improperly tuned truck than it is the dyno.

100% correct. put a set of big injectors in with a stock turbo and you will lose a fair amount of power unless the fuel maps are corrected to remove some of the fuel down low. Too much fuel is as bad as too little. Also WD are you saying this truck was doing 48psi of boost on the street with a stock charger. What type of boost gauge? I had parts of the exhaust wheel come out of the pipe trying to run a stock charger at 42psi max. levels seem way too high to be correct.

 

[WICKEDDIESELS]

The boost numbers were 24 on the dyno and 36 on the street. All this truck had was a Juice with Attitude, but that is not what I am asking. I do completely understand an algorhythm based on inputs and parameters, in laymans terms a fueling table.

The last three posts have been concerning tuning, I want to know if ANYONE knows, or agrees that a truck that does not make good boost numbers on an inertia dyno, does not have an accurate representation of actual power production. That is all I am asking, if you understand, then please answer, Thank You

 

[Dockboy]

The boost numbers were 24 on the dyno and 36 on the street. All this truck had was a Juice with Attitude, but that is not what I am asking. I do completely understand an algorhythm based on inputs and parameters, in laymans terms a fueling table.

The last three posts have been concerning tuning, I want to know if ANYONE knows, or agrees that a truck that does not make good boost numbers on an inertia dyno, does not have an accurate representation of actual power production. That is all I am asking, if you understand, then please answer, Thank You

It's not an accurate representation of the actual power it can produce, BUT..............

It IS an actual representation of how poorly it is tuned:bang

And here is where your thinking is wrong

I explained to him that without the MAP seeing the additional boost it would not add fuel, and he understood. It made more boost on the road than the dyno, this was a clear indicication of insufficient boost, leaving power untapped on the dyno.

WRONG!!!!!!

That is not the reason or proper explaination as to why the dynojet numbers were low. It is because of TOO MUCH FUEL too soon!!:bang

 

[John Anderson]

want to know if ANYONE knows, or agrees that a truck that does not make good boost numbers on an inertia dyno, does not have an accurate representation of actual power production. That is all I am asking, if you understand, then please answer, Thank You

There are too many variables in your question to answer definitely. To make big power on a Dynojet or any inertia dyno, your setup must be nearly perfect for the specific load applied by the dyno. Since the inertia test is a known mass vs time, you may see less boost/power then you would on the street with more load and a longer period of time. It's the time frame that is missing from your thoughts posted here. The mass of the dyno is accelerating faster then the mass of your truck on the street.

The problem with a typical stockish diesel is that it is tuned to make more power as load is increased. So if you cannot equal the load experienced on the street, you will not see the same power achieved. Now what the guys are trying to you is that you need to make your diesel engine produce power like a gasoline motor does. A gasoline motor always makes the same horsepower no matter the load. It is the dependence on the forced induction that complicates things for the diesel. If your goals for horsepower production involve a street truck or drag truck, you would want to be tuned to make the highest horsepower numbers on a dynojet style dyno. If your goals were more inclined towards towing or sled pulling, a load type dyno would be a better tuning device. The key word in both situations is tuning.

I just bought a Superflow dyno myself along with some tuning software. As soon as my new shop is finished I hope to have some more insight to share about this exact question in coming year.

 

[dzlfarmboy]

Most 6.0's seem to make in the ball park of 360-380hp with the typical bully dog, PPE, SCT, Edge chips that we've dynoed, and with their VGT Turbos they have no problem lighting on our 248h rollers, and would have to guess a possible problem with the tune, even though a dynojet wont load as much as on the street and see as much boost on the rollers they can still spool large chargers with a properly tuned truck be it a 12v, 24v, Cr or 6.0

 

[WICKEDDIESELS]

:bang :bang :bang :bang Just as I thought, everyone thinks this is a tuning question, when I am asking a dyno question and noone understands..... If a substantial load cannot be placed on the engine, total power will never be seen, for all engines, gas or diesel, load determines output. This is torque, the part of the equasion that is paramount for power production. Without torque you have nothing. torque x rpm/5252= Horsepower. If you drive your truck around empty and never haul anything, how do you know its towing capabilities? Same goes for dynoeing, if maximum loading to the point of rpm reduction is not capable, then true power output is never achieved. There are variances from dyno to dyno. The variance from Dynojet to Mustang and other absorber type dynos is great. The point being made is, how have Dynojet numbers become so previlant, as gospel, when they cannot properly load the engine, and the dyno run lasts just a few seconds. Yes more power always wins, as long as you are all being tested on the same dyno, Has it become, we will take what we can get, and noone cares about accuracy and real potential. Seems like 2 pieces of equipment being within 20% of each other would cause some questions to be raised, as to the valaidity of either machine. Seems inertia numbers are always way above, what should be accepted as REAL numbers. Eddy Current and load dynos have a calibrated strain gauge, to determine torque output, when actual rpm is matched to torque, with proper loading, legitimate horsepower numbers are calculated.