In light of recent events.

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KentuckyRumbler said:
I was brought up a motorhead though am new to formal racing due to where we lived....no track....you do the math. The stuff we did as "kids" downright scares me now. The other day I ran for the first time with the truck at a test and tune here at our track. 8 sec 1/8's and low 12 1/4's gives you the definite feeling that things are getting fast....and those numbers are slow for today's diesel standard. My first thought was I thought it was time for some stressing up in the cab. When my wife watched me accelerate to 85 in a few more than 600 feet she realized that this missle is deadly and for lack of better words said you race like that again without some gear and you're looking for a new wife. Then a few days later...like this last Sunday night, our track put on it's Big Bucks Tenn-Tuck 1/8 mile race. A dragster left the right lane, crossed over and hit the left wall at 150 mph. It wasn't pretty. His competitor was 1000th behind him, and managed to stay out of the way somehow. Now she REALLY is serious...because you don't know what's going to happen around you even if you're square and running a text book run.

....

Chris
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hence my point about equal (same class) cars racing on TNT nights as well. Truck vs funny car = NO MATCH when a collision is going to happen. if that funny car took a turn earlier, the guy in the funny car would of been TOAST cuz that "cage" would of been crushed buy a truck (assuming it was a truck in the other lane for our argument sake )
 
Timbeaux38 said:
Does anyone know exactly why NHRA lowered the roll bar requirement? That may provide some insight.
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Im not sure what your talking about.. I have the 08 nhra rule book and its basically all the same stuff. I mean, years ago (long time) it used to be 11.99 or faster for a roll bar. But you must keep in mind that roll bar specs back then didnt include rear supports. If i recall, because i cant find my late 80s early 90s books. I remember seeing alot of cars back then that only had these roll bars with door bars and nothing else. I dont remember when that all changed but i think it was the same time it moved to 11.49. Is this what you mean?
 
I really can't believe everyone is arguing about this? These trucks are heavier which equals more force. They have a higher center of Gravity which equal a greater chance of jumping the wall.

We all know, if we want to admit it or not, that these trucks need more protection that a 3000# car.

While I also agree we need to know what causes the accident, let's put our priority first on protecting the driver, our friends/family!

I say overbuild until shown we need less...
 
The "unsafe due to weight" argument is something you really need think more about.

"Doctor it hurts when I sit down."
"Then don't sit down."

If weight is the danger (not stability, steering, and braking), then adding weight isn't too bright by anyone's standard.

The solution would be to create maximum weight limits, effectively dissolving the sport for 99% of the racers.

Anyone here think their street truck is unsafe to drive on the street at 100mph for a few seconds? If so, go get it fixed before you kill somebody. A rollcage won't fix it, you need mechanical repairs.
 
How about raising the wall? Seems even a Camaro can jump them with ease if there's enough power and 4X4 will walk right over it. Spectator safety should come first. Keeping the truck in the lane as much as possible is important for everyones safety.
 
McRat said:
The "unsafe due to weight" argument is something you really need think more about.

"Doctor it hurts when I sit down."
"Then don't sit down."

If weight is the danger (not stability, steering, and braking), then adding weight isn't too bright by anyone's standard.

The solution would be to create maximum weight limits, effectively dissolving the sport for 99% of the racers.

Anyone here think their street truck is unsafe to drive on the street at 100mph for a few seconds? If so, go get it fixed before you kill somebody. A rollcage won't fix it, you need mechanical repairs.
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Pat, were not talking about "steering, stability and braking", We are talking about what is there to save you when all that stuff is behind you and your on your way to the wall. Prevention is the start. What happens when something beyond your control happens?
 
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McRat said:
Anyone here think their street truck is unsafe to drive on the street at 100mph for a few seconds?
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The factory engineers did, that's why they all have speed limiters set to ~92 MPH. This is not about "is it safe" because we all know its not, but we are also all comfortable doing it. This is all about the "WHAT IF" happens as it did this past weekend. If you choose to ignore the engineering and the math behind it thats your problem. Matt has put up a nice chart that you can follow and see where you fall into for a full cage per NHRA's specification.

Matt could you do the same for a simple roll-bar rule? Then maybe people will see when the simple roll-bar should be used in a heavy vehicle.
 
I say follow NHRA/IHRA rules and specs when building your truck. That should end all this BS and questions about what should be put in what truck at whatever time they run.

Orgainzers of diesel events need to be responsible and notify their local tracks what the rules and specs are for diesel trucks. They still don't know what is legal and what isn't because this sport is so young. Because of this, they are left blind and they will pass almost anything.

We have that situation here in Edmonton but now that we are working with them closely, street legal nights and other diesel events will be safer because we are informing them of what these trucks are capable of and what needs to be put in for safety equipment and what to look out for when these trucks roll in for tech inspection.

It would also be beneficial for the NHRDA, NADM and DHRA to send out safety bulletins to the tracks that they have events with. That way they know for future reference what safety must be in place for diesel trucks. Then all their staff are properly trained for future events.

And if you are still lost, email/call the NHRDA and ask them what you need to do to your truck to have it up to safety codes. They can help you out.
 
Diesel Tech said:
The factory engineers did, that's why they all have speed limiters set to ~92 MPH. This is not about "is it safe" because we all know its not, but we are also all comfortable doing it. This is all about the "WHAT IF" happens as it did this past weekend. If you choose to ignore the engineering and the math behind it thats your problem. Matt has put up a nice chart that you can follow and see where you fall into for a full cage per NHRA's specification.

Matt could you do the same for a simple roll-bar rule? Then maybe people will see when the simple roll-bar should be used in a heavy vehicle.
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92? mine's 108 from the factory.

My dad's old f350 PSD was 97.

There is no standard.

Vettes have one at 170.
 
wrongway said:
Guy's, since I have become the so called Poster child for this let me comment. Regardless of the fact if it was my fault, the truck, or the track stuff like this is gonna happen. I honestly believe that if my rollcage would not have been in that truck I would not be here. David Dunbar and I spoke this morning and I am going to allow him total access to the rollcage and whatever else he need's to look at for future modification's, and rule change's. I know a lot of people are gonna ***** about either slowing their truck down or put a rollcage in it. But fella's I can say this much, at 91 mph you CANNOT feel a guard rail, or a powerpole in these truck's. There is so much kinetic energy in these 4700 lb truck's that it is gonna take some serious safety equipment to stop them. I am already in the process of building another one and it will be going all the way to S&S in Kentucky for a full rollcage. I do not want to bury a "Friend" because they are too stubborn to put a cage in. Thank's to all of you in the Diesel community for your support. Wrongway is comin back!!!!!!!!!:cheer: Gary
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It's great that the NADM is taking the lead in post incident analysis, IMO: this is a world class approach to the present concerns for safety in our sport. Their collection process will transpose into opportunity for better safe guarding through rule book changes. In the safety world, the Iceberg's mass always hides the potential risks beneath the water. We've been lucky and really haven't had any serious accidents until lastweek, Dunbar's approach to this incident is exactly the actions needed to guarantee each racer leaves the track in the same condition they've arrived in. There might some curled tails if new requirements are imposed, however, it's in our best interest
for survival purposes.
 
Dalpilot said:
Pat, were not talking about "steering, stability and braking", We are talking about what is there to save you when all that stuff is behind you and your on your way to the wall. Prevention is the start. What happens when something beyond your control happens?
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Many different things:

  • You cross the median, and hit a minivan head-on with a family of 5 on board.
  • You go through the bridge guardrail and land in 18' of water upside down.
  • You cross the centerline, through the guardrail and chainlink, and into the bleachers.

Most crashes happen for a reason. It's seldom caused by rollbars.
 
We all understand you know we suck as drivers, and you are better Pat...but we're not talking about how to avoid using the rollbar/cage. What we are discussing is how much extra steel needs to be in your vehicle to make it safe to crash at the speed we are hitting. We have no control over losing a tire at 120mph, or a ball joint coming apart, or a multitude of other possibilities.

Survivability, is the reason to install a cage. I damn sure hope it would be money wasted, and you never have to test and see if it's strong enough...but unfortunately, we cannot control EVERYTHING as you say you can.


My goal for my truck is to daily drive at a 12.0 level, and I might spray it a little and get below that. If I have to have a cage/rollbar to do that, I might slow down a bit per the rules...or I might just cage it and go faster. Depends on how much money is left over from getting it there...right now, there is none! If I feel unsafe before hitting those levels, I'll stop!

Chris
 
What is wrong with that guy, their trying to do some things that might save somebodys life. May be one of your loved ones.
 
JasonCzerak said:
92? mine's 108 from the factory.

My dad's old f350 PSD was 97.

There is no standard.

Vettes have one at 170.
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Most vehicles nowadays are based on the speed rating of the tires they are delivered with. Trucks like Cole's and mine are capped at 96mph from the factory. I found that out 2 weeks after I bought my first one.

LS1 F-bodies were the smoking gun, as you could order them with different tires. The base model tires capped at just over 110, but the SS package tires capped at 162mph. Powerplant and gearbox were the same.

Kat's Corvette did not have an electronic 'speed' limiter. In fifth gear it hit redline and the rev-limiter kicked in and capped it at 175mph indicated. Shifting to 6th reduced power to cap it at 162mph due to wind resistance.

But I digress.

8,000lb at 130mph with go through an NHRA guardrail and into the spectator area. So will 3,000lb. I've seen it. Through it or over it, 50mph will take it out, just like it does on our freeways.

The fact that the 8,000lb truck has more residual energy left over is a very small condolence. I suppose a .44mag has far less energy than a .50BMG. Not something worthy of a tombstone phrase though.

The reasoning I see here is RicerRationale. We should be racing Neons because they are safe. Horse pucky.

PS - Please nobody take any comments like "Famoso has lax tech" to heart. No track I've run at including Pomona is more strict, and I've raced at a lot. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.
 
Signature600 said:
We all understand you know we suck as drivers, and you are better Pat...but we're not talking about how to avoid using the rollbar/cage. What we are discussing is how much extra steel needs to be in your vehicle to make it safe to crash at the speed we are hitting. We have no control over losing a tire at 120mph, or a ball joint coming apart, or a multitude of other possibilities.

Survivability, is the reason to install a cage. I damn sure hope it would be money wasted, and you never have to test and see if it's strong enough...but unfortunately, we cannot control EVERYTHING as you say you can.


My goal for my truck is to daily drive at a 12.0 level, and I might spray it a little and get below that. If I have to have a cage/rollbar to do that, I might slow down a bit per the rules...or I might just cage it and go faster. Depends on how much money is left over from getting it there...right now, there is none! If I feel unsafe before hitting those levels, I'll stop!

Chris
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Your "daily drive" is the most dangerous thing you do.

I saw two accidents this morning, and I only drove 20 miles.

If you are truly concerned about your personal safety you would wear a helmet in your car/truck on a daily basis. Most car fatality injuries are head injuries.

Do you wear a helmet to work?
 
McRat said:
Your "daily drive" is the most dangerous thing you do.

I saw two accidents this morning, and I only drove 20 miles.

If you are truly concerned about your personal safety you would wear a helmet in your car/truck on a daily basis. Most car fatality injuries are head injuries.

Do you wear a helmet to work?
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Pat,

Do you ever think before you post???

Dennis
 
McRat said:
Your "daily drive" is the most dangerous thing you do.

I saw two accidents this morning, and I only drove 20 miles.

If you are truly concerned about your personal safety you would wear a helmet in your car/truck on a daily basis. Most car fatality injuries are head injuries.

Do you wear a helmet to work?
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I know I usually boost to 20lbs before merging on the freeway, (after I arm and purge the nitrous of course.) and try to drive 90 MPH everywhere. LOL

I rarely drive more than 75mph on my commutes. Trying to compare a commute and a "race" where the idea is to go fast and get there first is "horse pucky" as you put it.
 
McRat said:
Your "daily drive" is the most dangerous thing you do.

I saw two accidents this morning, and I only drove 20 miles.

If you are truly concerned about your personal safety you would wear a helmet in your car/truck on a daily basis. Most car fatality injuries are head injuries.

Do you wear a helmet to work?
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I drive a mile to work...I'm afraid for my life every morning!


I work with family, so a mile drive is not even enough to prepare me for the day, let alone make me feel unsafe!
Chris
 
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