Studs or head bolts?

I have a air nozzle with 2 foot of copper tubing on the end of it that fist very well in the hole cleaning it out... I also backed my studs out a half turn before begining the torquing process... The only thing that sucks is you have to get the rocker pedastals milled down according to th instructions..
 
While I can't give the specific number, its over 15 to 1. The motor that we had in there was his hot street motor used for testing; yes...the motor that ran that truck to 8.71 @ 158 was a street motor. There is a new motor in the works that will bring together everything Keating has spent the last years testing. And it will probably run bolts with predictable results using the mumbo jumbo method for tightening. :Cheer:
 
THATpreston said:
While I can't give the specific number, its over 15 to 1. The motor that we had in there was his hot street motor used for testing; yes...the motor that ran that truck to 8.71 @ 158 was a street motor. There is a new motor in the works that will bring together everything Keating has spent the last years testing. And it will probably run bolts with predictable results using the mumbo jumbo method for tightening. :Cheer:
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I rather prefer the predictable mumbo jumbo method that was used on my truck.
 
Would any of you be interested in purchasing my old bolts..... thier virgin, only ever torqured to factory specs. and only once from cummins. I take 450.00 plus tax and shipping.

That way my crappy studs would not cost so much!
Sorry had to....Ryan
 
stock600 said:
Would any of you be interested in purchasing my old bolts..... thier virgin, only ever torqured to factory specs. and only once from cummins. I take 450.00 plus tax and shipping.

That way my crappy studs would not cost so much!
Sorry had to....Ryan
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Nobody said your studs were crappy bro..... It is just that I can buy 4 and a half sets of bolts and a case of beer or 2 for $450.00
 
I hear ya 100%, and dont think i wouldnt have tried them if i would have heard Any decant reports of others running them in the application that i intend on. A race only environment with 50+ lbs boost, water/meth, nitrous, and increased cylinder pressures due to much higher timing settings. I would have loved to put that money else wheres i promise ya, but its insurance at the least. Glad something cheaper is working for ya and hope it continues to do so. Ryan
 
So does Keating or others have any results on how well "correct incrementally" torqued stock head bolts hold with a stock gasket, no orings, just flat block to flat head?

I'm thinking about cleaning, lubing, and retorquing my stock bolts one at a time to 125 ft lbs. Will that be enough to hold 45 psi boost and 75 psi drive pressure on a daily driver? So far my head is in tact, but for how much longer?
 
I run 80 psi of boost now on 12 mm ARP's with an OEM gasket...seems the right way to me...that cost is minimal.
 
stock600 said:
I hear ya 100%, and dont think i wouldnt have tried them if i would have heard Any decant reports of others running them in the application that i intend on. A race only environment with 50+ lbs boost, water/meth, nitrous, and increased cylinder pressures due to much higher timing settings. I would have loved to put that money else wheres i promise ya, but its insurance at the least. Glad something cheaper is working for ya and hope it continues to do so. Ryan
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It aint just me it is working for. There are several trucks that run them that spray all that stuff, have more timing and boost and turn stupid RPM to boot. (Jeff Prince being a good example)

The point is, Studs are great, they are awesome for folks that cant torque bolts properly and make them work, but they are by no means necessary as some would lead you to believe. They are kind of like a doorbell on an outhouse..... Nice to have, but not needed all the time. If i had an application that I was pulling the head off with any regularity, I would run studs, but I have never had to have the head off.
 
Big Blue24 said:
I'm thinking about cleaning, lubing, and retorquing my stock bolts one at a time to 125 ft lbs.
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Don't forget to check the used bolts on a stretch gauge- they may be stretched out and the ones that are, will be the first to be taken past yeild stretch and snap.

For the record I seen both the std. ARP's and stock bolts snap.

IMHO it's all about prep and proper installation and a stringent torque proceedure for each.

$.02ARP 625's for the ultimate in fastening abilities.:rockwoot:
 
Big Blue24 said:
I'm thinking about cleaning, lubing, and retorquing my stock bolts one at a time to 125 ft lbs. Will that be enough to hold 45 psi boost and 75 psi drive pressure on a daily driver?
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you should be okay with 45 lbs without clamping the head down.
 
Trust me.....the timing was up there.

Honestly....do what feels right for you. Keating and several others that most would consider big names have gone to the bolt method. Guess we kick it old school on the East Coast. And as a disclaimer, Keating does not sell head bolts. A little disclosure goes a long way. :cheer:
 
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Big Blue24 said:
I'm thinking about cleaning, lubing, and retorquing my stock bolts one at a time to 125 ft lbs. Will that be enough to hold 45 psi boost and 75 psi drive pressure on a daily driver? So far my head is in tact, but for how much longer?
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I'd be worried about the DP though, 75 psi:eek:
 
Big Blue 24, go buy new bolts. They are cheap, unstretched, and haven't had 230k miles of abuse put on them. And honestly, I ran 45psi for a year with no issues. Only reason I went to studs is cause I started running water. If it ain't blown then I'd leave it alone.
 
I'm kinda leaning towards leaving it alone, but at the same time, I like to tinker in my spare time and this sounds like a great tinker project. What's the cost of new bolts, 100 bucks?
 
When mine blows I'll get some o-rings and a new set of BOLTS. But for now the stock retourqed bolts and stock head gasket are doing fine at 58 psi.
 
Ok, so just to make sure i've got this understanding right do the following:
1. Make sure to clean the snot out of the bolt holes
2. Apply moly based lube to the bolt threads and bolt head vigorously!
3. Follow the stock torque procedure until you reach the "90 degrees past" part. I think that's 90 ft-lbs if I remember correctly.
3. Torque all the head bolts down in 5 lb increments to 130 ft-lbs.

Questions:
1. Is 130ft-lbs adequate or should one go farther or not as far?
2. Is there a time between each of the torque sequences the bolt need to allow for any kind of cooling or some other reason?
3. Is there anything in general that I missed besides the drink beer while doing this part lol?

Thanks
 
Personally, if it ain't broke play with it till it is but pulling heads is where I draw the line on that.
 
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