12v head...stock appearing

Hamilton Cams

Hamilton Cams

ignorant
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
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I don't make the rules, I just try to make power. With this in mind it seems a lot of pulling classes are ruling against our head. No problem.

I am getting a quote for heads that have very small or no water jackets in them at all. How many people are willing to buy one of these to get around the rules?

I can have them in as little as 2 months if people are interested. Also if there are any other rules that people want to step around, post up what you are looking for and I will see what I can do to help you make more power. I don't want to break the rules, I just want to help you make more HP. Tell me what you need!


Zach
 
I don't think organizations are "against" your head.

There is a time and a place for something like that. At this time that place may be the higher classes. I don't think this is any different than the tractor classes. You have to set the line somewhere. I never expected your head to be legal in the pulling classes from the time you started talking about building it.

Now "getting around the rules"....... I am not sure how to comment on that?
 
I think there would be some more interest in a stock-appearing head to "get around the rules" but I dont think anyone is going to be willing to talk about it on the internet. What with all the smartphones and just everyone crawling compd these days, it wouldnt take much effort to find someones post, show it to an official and instantly incriminate them.
 
the beauty of pm"s.......

kids wanna go faster and play harder

the roids of motorsports
 
Kinda sounds to me Zach your trying to promote a bunch of cheater parts to "Get around the rules". It doesnt bother you to promote cheater parts? or is all about the $$$$$. And so you know almost all the lower classes say the head and block must flow water freely. Im all for allowing your other head but all the other aftermarket heads should be allowed as well.
 
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My take as soon as that happens you will see clubs come out with an OEM rule. Not all just some, also it depends on the cost of the head if it is right with the OEM head cost, I would say it would fly.
 
Hamilton Cams said:
I don't make the rules, I just try to make power. With this in mind it seems a lot of pulling classes are ruling against our head. No problem.

I am getting a quote for heads that have very small or no water jackets in them at all. How many people are willing to buy one of these to get around the rules?

I can have them in as little as 2 months if people are interested. Also if there are any other rules that people want to step around, post up what you are looking for and I will see what I can do to help you make more power. I don't want to break the rules, I just want to help you make more HP. Tell me what you need!


Zach
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I appreciate you being honest and coming right out and telling us what you want to do. But because of what you are promoting i would never use you. I know there are plenty of people that will so i'm sure it will work out for you. Good luck with your plans.
 
it would be a stock appering head, that flows water, what part of that is cheating.
 
gunracer1 said:
it would be a stock appering head, that flows water, what part of that is cheating.
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I don't think the rules say stock appearing, OEM is usually the term. Stock appearing is the way they are teched usually. They also say freely flows water.


Here all the time many talk about how they don't want to be like the "gasser trash pullers" yet this is a play right out of their playbook.


One of the big reasons the gasser guys write rules to keep the aftermarket heads out, is to try to keep some of the costs down. If this head was cheaper than the cummins OE head, it would be a good argument to allow them.
 
a ported head is stock appearing, what is the difference at a glance? if zach chooses to build the head, people dont have to purchase them. their intended use by the purchaser is that persons business.
 
90% of the people are cheating then. It is not chance that certain people do better than others in pulling. People in the know use parts that are better.

One of the most popular heads being used by the people in the winners circle is a copy of a Cummins 12v head made by the Chinese. They didn't exactly get it right so the water jackets are off a decent bit. This allows quite a bit more port reshaping to be done and quite a bit more flow to be possible. Cheating, by your explanations, yes. But the most popular company selling 6bt heads sells them. People knowingly and unknowingly buy them. In my mind, my proposition was in the same league as what people are doing on a very large scale. Since I know about this, my offer was no different. THe only way to insure that this does not happen is to have a no aftermarket casting rule, and a no fill rule. If this was in place power would go down across the board.

Cheating, I am not, and will not. I was considering making a part to fit into the vague rules. I have people that buy my head and tell me that they are taking the Texas off of the front and will run it in certain classes. Is a head that is by the rules in appearing stock and flowing water cheating?

If you did not know what was already going on you might say yes. The only way to police the sport is to have a OEM only casting. If my proposed head is cheating then over 60% of the people are currently cheating. The problem with the any rule is enforcement. Since there are so many people "cheating" currently, the only way that I can see for it to be fair is to allow any cast iron heads or all heads. There is no other way that any sanctioning body can police this rule short of handing everybody the same head. Even then, there can be up to 10-15cfm difference due to casting shift. So not all heads will be equal even then.

Allowing all cast iron heads or all heads period will keep the sport moving forward and will stop the "bending" of the rules that so many are doing.

The most popular builders use this head, hell, 90% of the 6bt's in the USA use this head. A head porter I know uses this head as well. One out of every 6 heads he ports blows through and hits water. To all of the people that are calling me a cheater for asking if you wanted me to make you a product. Is this person cheating by using only the heads that are chinese, have thicker ports and flow 10-15cfm or more than the OE. People pay him a lot of money because he gets more CFM. Are they not cheating because they are ignorant of the fact he is using an aftermarket head.

Like I said. I just make products. I let others make the rules. Also, if you make a no porting rule, Brezinski can even get around that.

The better question is how do you police the cheating already going on? I call the whole thing B.S. The reason I am in the crosshairs is because, I am not afraid to make new products. Is it cheating when someone gets a better cam, injectors, pump, turbo?

I think you all need to define what you want to accomplish in pulling and make rules accordingly that are enforceable. All OE is the only way to be truly fair in my mind. Either that or have a full engine teardown facility, and or a claimer rule to enforce rules like heads or blocks.

Zach
 
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zstroken said:
Here all the time many talk about how they don't want to be like the "gasser trash pullers" yet this is a play right out of their playbook.


One of the big reasons the gasser guys write rules to keep the aftermarket heads out, is to try to keep some of the costs down. If this head was cheaper than the cummins OE head, it would be a good argument to allow them.
Click to expand...

Hamilton Cams said:
90% of the people are cheating then. It is not chance that certain people do better than others in pulling. People in the know use parts that are better.

One of the most popular heads being used by the people in the winners circle is a copy of a Cummins 12v head made by the Chinese. They didn't exactly get it right so the water jackets are off a decent bit. This allows quite a bit more port reshaping to be done and quite a bit more flow to be possible. Cheating, by your explanations, yes. But the most popular company selling 6bt heads sells them. People knowingly and unknowingly buy them. In my mind, my proposition was in the same league as what people are doing on a very large scale. Since I know about this, my offer was no different. THe only way to insure that this does not happen is to have a no aftermarket casting rule, and a no fill rule. If this was in place power would go down across the board.

Cheating, I am not, and will not. I was considering making a part to fit into the vague rules. I have people that buy my head and tell me that they are taking the Texas off of the front and will run it in certain classes. Is a head that is by the rules in appearing stock and flowing water cheating?

If you did not know what was already going on you might say yes. The only way to police the sport is to have a OEM only casting. If my proposed head is cheating then over 60% of the people are currently cheating. The problem with the any rule is enforcement. Since there are so many people "cheating" currently, the only way that I can see for it to be fair is to allow any cast iron heads or all heads. There is no other way that any sanctioning body can police this rule short of handing everybody the same head. Even then, there can be up to 10-15cfm difference due to casting shift. So not all heads will be equal even then.

Allowing all cast iron heads or all heads period will keep the sport moving forward and will stop the "bending" of the rules that so many are doing.

A Very popular pulling engine builder ports his heads to the max. One out of every 6 heads he ports blows through and hits water. To all of the poeple that are calling me a cheater for asking if you wanted me to make you a product. Is this person cheating by using only the heads that are chinese, have thicker ports and flow 10-15cfm more than the OE?

Like I said. I just make products. I let others make the rules. Also, if you make a no porting rule, Brezinski can even get around that.

The better question is how do you police the cheating already going on?

Zach
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Refer to the red quotes Zach.
 
It is not uncommon for people to spend more than 5k on a "stock" head. My head is inexpensive compared to that. I will be glad to work with sanctioning bodies and develop a head that will be cheap and will make them serialized and very inexpensive so that fairness is possible. Even then casting shift will give some an edge.......spend $5k on as many $400 heads as it takes to get the one with casting shift that allows more porting.

I cannot think of a single scenario that is fair other than allowing you to run what you brung. The only way to truly police is on the turbo side, or let anything go.

Zstroken, following with your thoughts, how would you police the current rules to stop the cheating already widely going on?
 
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You want to move the sport forward? 3k for a cylinder head, that i still have to take and have a valve job done on. I don't know about you but alot of guys and myself included are getting tired of paying for this overpriced crap.
 
Zstroken, are you running a stock OEM head? doubt it. you probably have $2000+ if you want to compete....zachs head is $2500. your argument there isnt much to argue about.
 
Tony,

I agree with you. I would not pay to pull. I almost put my company in the ground after spending over 50k my first two years in business pulling. I learned really quick how much can be spent. the 2.6 class is very expensive to pull in.

I believe in free markets. Police what can be policed and let the rest roll. Policing turbos is the only way I can see the sport being fair and growing.

The thing that racing and pulling does is allows innovation. I hate to see slowed or stopped.

Z still waiting. Give me a fullproof way to stop the cheating already going on.

97 crewcab, kronic, disturbed... Any of you running a head other than a cummins OE? Be honest and hold yourselves to the same standard you are holding me to.
 
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Hamilton Cams said:
It is not uncommon for people to spend more than 5k on a "stock" head. My head is inexpensive compared to that. I will be glad to work with sanctioning bodies and develop a head that will be cheap and will make them serialized and very inexpensive so that fairness is possible. Even then casting shift will give some an edge.......spend $5k on as many $400 heads as it takes to ge the one with casting shift that allows more porting.

I cannot think of a single scenario that is fair other than allowing you to run what you brung. The only way to truly police is on the turbo side, or let anything go.

Zstroken, following with your thoughts, how would you police the current rules to stop the cheating already widely going on?
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It is all a muddy mess, however when heads are purposely made to skirt rules, it just starts to open up a whole new world.

I remember jetski racing, I didn't race, I just bought the parts that were outlawed from racers for dirt cheap LOL. I have a "cheater head" made by westcoast(now out of business) that had o-rings and removable domes. It says Kawasaki right on the top of it.

The cheating/rule bending ruins the sport. New folks don't want to come in because of the cheating, and folks leave because they are tired of the cheating. It doesn't help the sport, in my opinion.
 
lenahan05 said:
Zstroken, are you running a stock OEM head? doubt it. you probably have $2000+ if you want to compete....zachs head is $2500. your argument there isnt much to argue about.
Click to expand...

If I remember right a IH casting head wasn't OEM in a Dodge pickup. So how many cheaters are out there?
 
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