12v head...stock appearing

lenahan05 said:
Zstroken, are you running a stock OEM head? doubt it. you probably have $2000+ if you want to compete....zachs head is $2500. your argument there isnt much to argue about.
Click to expand...


I have an OEM head. I completely understand, the ball is already in motion, there are gonna be stock appearing recast heads out. Just like in the gasser world LOL. Your not gonna stop it, just voicing my opinion on it. Of course then you take a $2500 head and put $2000 into that one. See the cycle?
Wonder what all the vendors and suppliers will do when people get tired of pouring the money into a 2.6 pullers? LOL I guess look at the current gasser classes should tell us.


I didn't mean to imply that Zach is cheating. He is just putting a feeler out to provide people with what they want. He isn't forcing them to use the head.
 
Last edited:
He'll I might as well get in on this one too.

What about people running the cng heads? Those are not frOm a not ton truck. I say personally that it should be a oem casting but then comes the techs job and we know how that goes so since nobody can stop the guys already cheating, might as well let people run what ever they want. The only people rules like this police are us honest people. I deal with Scheid but nobody protested them when they put a danco trans in a 2.6 truck. That is not oem. So the gray areas are about which side your on.

Tim
 
Hamilton Cams said:
97 crewcab, kronic, disturbed... Any of you running a head other than a cummins OE? Be honest and hold yourselves to the same standard you are holding me to.
Click to expand...

On all 3 of our trucks are used OE heads i had here at the shop that i picked up over time
 
Hamilton Cams said:
Z- I agree with what you are saying. Instead of knocking me, how would you make it fair?
Click to expand...


It wasn't a knock on you, just a knock on folks who think they need to cheat to win.


Require an OE cast head. Lines have to be drawn, it is the same way in many sports. Spending more money on a part you have to use to meet the rules.
 
I have 2 ported heads. Both came off of cummins motors from dodge trucks. One of the motors I own and still run, the other I bought from a guy locally and saw him pull the head from a ve motor that he had salvaged.

I was not saying anything negative about your product in my post. I am just not surprised that your head is not being allowed. I told other pullers that last year when they asked about buying one when they came out. It is hard for me to spend money on a product that I might be able to run every night.

I am still not sure about trying to make a head that bends the rule. I am sure if you make it there will be people who buy it. I for one will not.
 
Fair enough. I also believe that the only way to make it fair is to not allow any aftermarket or Chinese heads at all, or allow all heads. If you allow only OE heads, how would you guys tech that? What is theh one thing that will tell any head from all aftermarkets short of making everybody buy the same one?

To be fair to all who pull, this is an issue that needs to be addressed.
 
So its OK to spend an easy $5k on an OEM head thats been ported through the water jackets and then welded back up and ported/polished for max flow, with a runner intake manifold etc but it would not allow a guy to buy an aftermarket cast head for much cheaper and run it as it sits right out of the box? And all of this is to keep the cost down for the new comers?

This doesnt make sense.
 
getblown5.9 said:
So its OK to spend an easy $5k on an OEM head thats been ported through the water jackets and then welded back up and ported/polished for max flow, with a runner intake manifold etc but it would not allow a guy to buy an aftermarket cast head for much cheaper and run it as it sits right out of the box? And all of this is to keep the cost down for the new comers?

This doesnt make sense.
Click to expand...


Who says that person would leave the aftermarket head "stock"? Basically doing the same upgrades to the aftermarket head, so now you have a $7500 head on a truck. LOL
 
Last edited:
getblown5.9 said:
So its OK to spend an easy $5k on an OEM head thats been ported through the water jackets and then welded back up and ported/polished for max flow, with a runner intake manifold etc but it would not allow a guy to buy an aftermarket cast head for much cheaper and run it as it sits right out of the box? And all of this is to keep the cost down for the new comers?

This doesnt make sense.
Click to expand...

Little to no water jacket. Which means you have no areas to avoid when porting and can go beyond the limits of an oe. head.
 
ILLINOISRAM said:
He'll I might as well get in on this one too.

What about people running the cng heads? Those are not frOm a not ton truck. I say personally that it should be a oem casting but then comes the techs job and we know how that goes so since nobody can stop the guys already cheating, might as well let people run what ever they want. The only people rules like this police are us honest people. I deal with Scheid but nobody protested them when they put a danco trans in a 2.6 truck. That is not oem. So the gray areas are about which side your on.

Tim
Click to expand...

Is there a difference in CNG castings?
 
I don't know personally but I have been told that they are better. I know of some guys in Ohio that run them but have not seen with my own eyes
 
zstroken said:
I don't think the rules say stock appearing, OEM is usually the term. Stock appearing is the way they are teched usually. They also say freely flows water.


Here all the time many talk about how they don't want to be like the "gasser trash pullers" yet this is a play right out of their playbook.


One of the big reasons the gasser guys write rules to keep the aftermarket heads out, is to try to keep some of the costs down. If this head was cheaper than the cummins OE head, it would be a good argument to allow them.
Click to expand...

The rules for TS and Schieds for 2011 stated:

Engine:
The engine is limited to a stock-appearing, Engine and transmissions can be interchanged between Dodge, Ford and GM as long as they came in a 1 ton truck or less from the factory. Complete engine must have stock appearance except where otherwise noted in these rules. aftermarket intake manifolds are allowed

What is stock appearing? Cut off intake, one piece valve cover, long tube exhaust manifold, JD injectors, etc, etc, etc.

Apparently this is stock appearing? (gray area)

My opinion is that Zach's new head is stock appearing.

No mention of freely flows water either...

2011 TS Outlaw Sled Pull 2.6 Rules *NEW* - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
 
Does it really matter? You have to spend well over $25k to have a top contending 2.6 truck any where with good competition. Don't get me wrong, I know they're trying to keep it fair. But could you imagine tech at some pulls with techs having to verify for a stock cummins non china head that's bolted on an engine in a truck? If they're going to go this deep with heads, why not limit suspension mods every thing else and police that more? I'm all for a new cheaper head, as long as it's affordable. For me, I see plenty of people making big power with modded OEM and China heads. There for since I'm a broke sob, I'll have to go that route. If I was loaded I'd say heck yeah on the head. I wouldn't need as much water flow on a 1/4 mile track any way.
 
Last edited:
GOT-Torque said:
The rules for TS and Schieds for 2011 stated:

Engine:
The engine is limited to a stock-appearing, Engine and transmissions can be interchanged between Dodge, Ford and GM as long as they came in a 1 ton truck or less from the factory. Complete engine must have stock appearance except where otherwise noted in these rules. aftermarket intake manifolds are allowed

What is stock appearing? Cut off intake, one piece valve cover, long tube exhaust manifold, JD injectors, etc, etc, etc.

Apparently this is stock appearing? (gray area)

My opinion is that Zach's new head is stock appearing.

No mention of freely flows water either...

2011 TS Outlaw Sled Pull 2.6 Rules *NEW* - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together
Click to expand...


Since they call out the aftermarket manifolds being allowed, if someone shows up with some JD style injectors, be interesting to see what would happen. I know from previous motorsports, stock appearing means stock external dimensions. The scheid rules do a good job of calling out aftermarket intakes being allowed. They added that to the rules because a few years back the aftermarket intakes were an issue in the 2.6 class.

As 97crewcab said if you want to pull anywhere and everynight, probably should hold off on the aftermarket head.


On edit I checked one set of rules and it calls out no aftermarket. So be interesting where this goes.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top