12v hp #'s

Hammer said:
Hmmm...
So please tell us all then oh wise one,How is this done????.

I am at a loss when guys say they make 600 on a 12v with a single charger with simple pump mods.Certainly someone would have been able to explain how those who did this know more than the pump shops who do many of our pumps.........Andy
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Me too, this isn't possible. You are all liars with broken dynos and fake timeslips. :hehe:
 
So what you guys are saying is just because someone excells at something and you cant grasp it that means its BS? I have nothing to lie about or brag about. I just like sharing what i have found so others that appreciate it will benifit and save some money and time. Its called being a nice guy. Try it someday and even you might want to change. Treat others as how you want to be treated.
 
Bponci said:
So what you guys are saying is just because someone excells at something and you cant grasp it that means its BS? I have nothing to lie about or brag about. I just like sharing what i have found so others that appreciate it will benifit and save some money and time. Its called being a nice guy. Try it someday and even you might want to change. Treat others as how you want to be treated.
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I think they were being sarcastic man:p.

I'm very interested in some of the things you've uncovered messing with these pumps the first being why do you run 28 degrees in your setup?! I'm all ears man just trying to learn!:Cheer:
 
Sorry if i wasn't clear. I was poking at Hammer! I know it's very doable and I would like to think my truck was in the 600 hp range before I got rid of my single as well. Just no way to back that up besides some street fun, so I won't say it was for sure.
 
Its all good!! I have ran timing from 19.0 to 30.0. I have found that with my combo that my truck has i run 30.0 degrees and it responds well and is very consistant. I am in the mists of doing some changes and bumping my fuel up a taste more. I think the pump still has more in her.
 
Bponci said:
Its all good!! I have ran timing from 19.0 to 30.0. I have found that with my combo that my truck has i run 30.0 degrees and it responds well and is very consistant. I am in the mists of doing some changes and bumping my fuel up a taste more. I think the pump still has more in her.
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Wow, that's alot of timing! I'm guessing this truck isn't riding around on the street alot any more? What's everone's thoughts on big timing and daily drivers? I'm thinking it's a bit hard on the motor if it's a driver but once again i'm all ears!:Cheer:
 
I dont drive it every day but i could if i wanted to. Its very drivable and street legal. Starts and runs fine.
 
Bponci said:
I dont drive it every day but i could if i wanted to. Its very drivable and street legal. Starts and runs fine.
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Oh, ok. I was just thinking of the way the added timing may hammer the rod pins etc. Thanks for the input man!:rockwoot:
 
They are all lying to give you P-Pump envy.
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Thanks Ron....Your always the one who can lighten a room's mood up,LOL.

What turbo are you running Andy? I thought it was a small GT and you were at like 530's or 540's.
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Jim...
Nope...
The small Garrett has been gone since Mid-Summer and the best it ever did was 497.It was flat out done with nothing left in it to push it over the 500 mark at all.

Charger on the truck now is a HTT Pro-Street 66/71/13ss and on the street it will fly but strap it down and its a dead fish.The best we have gotten out of it in good air was 530 and at that show we had killer air.I am convinced there is a ton left in it but am left scratching my head where its lost at.

Well hello Andy. How are you doing? Glad to see you have some good info to support The people on this site. If a person just works with there pump on the truck they can get more out of it than some might think. Just because one person thinks another person cant get more out of a pump should give them more drive to accel and learn. Everyday is a learning day. School is always in session.
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Hmmm....
Brad....
So then if I read you correct then Brad your saying that I have nothing to offer anyone here on this site,correct????.Just want to make sure so I know where I stand I would hate to be confused anymore than I am already.

So we are on the same page here....
I never said that anyone who works on their pumps may not get fuel out of them.What I did do though was question how someone who has never had their pump to a stand can do more with their combo than a unit which has been gone through on a stand.See I am at a loss here on that fact and when I see numbers from guys who claim only minor mods or bench tweaks I do my homework.I then run the numbers based on their parts claims and many times it comes up showing they do not have the fuel to support what they claim.So if what you say is true,then again I ask,how could those numbers then be attained?. To me its simple the figure around is 1.1cc of fuel per HP gained so to go over 600 then 660cc would put you in the ball park,if your tune is right.Certainly we can all agree that one will not attain 600+cc's of fuel with simple bench tweaks or work while the pump is not on a stand.So there is where my question comes from,it has not changed since Joe D's "Sickly" went across the 600 threshold and still has yet to be answered by anyone.

In long conversations with 2 different pump shops they both related the same thing to me about the amounts of fuel and timing we will need to cross the 600 threshold.A couple of things stick out to me from those conversations,one is how difficult driving the truck would be due to timing and fueling and the other was how hard the amount of timing needed would be on the bottom end.So I do my homework and yet I haven't figured it out which is why I continue to read on.I do have alot of papers here on my desk maybe someday,of course when you feel someone is being nice to you,you can relate to all those here just how you do the 600hp deal with a single charger and minor pump mods.Then I will get to throw all my papers away,write it down,apply it to mine and come back here and make sure everyone knows it was you who solved the issue...........:bang
 
Hammer,

Are you saying guys cant get to 600+HP with a non bench/stand tested pump?

I dont know where anyone said you have nothing to offer.

If you saying someones dyno numbers are BS than say it.

Im not trying to piss you off, just understand where you are coming from.
Sorry for the ignorance.
 
Hammer, how do you figure 1.1cc of fuel per hp? Does that mean my 12mm pump puts out 1100cc to make 1000 hp?
 
Andy, Instead of beating the dead horse of how 600+ is not achevable on a stock pump why do you go out and fool with your pump some and try different things, thats what everbody else does, big numbers dont just fall in their lap.$.02
 
Andy, The more I think about it the more I think about your AFC. I know Jim has been a big advocate on AFC tuning. I'm sure his is set up very well, I'm not sure how Brad's is set up may be he can drop a few clues. Andy I'm just wondering if yours is over fueling itself down low. Remember you have to manipulate your truck to run well on the jet.
 
If you saying someones dyno numbers are BS than say it.
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Nope,not at all...
The numbers are what they are and most have their papers to show what they did.What I am again asking,is how can this be done when the numbers do not support what they did?.Your not going to pizz me off by asking me a question,I am mearely trying to get to a better of idea of what I am missing.

Andy, Instead of beating the dead horse of how 600+ is not achevable on a stock pump why do you go out and fool with your pump some and try different things, thats what everbody else does, big numbers dont just fall in their lap
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Ah Young Brett...Mr.12v himself...
I am guessing that the sheer number of times my truck was strapped down last year while we sorted this deal out doesn't show I was doing anything?.While I understand what your saying I am not able to just use my own dyno like you can and strap down at will and for free to do my tuning.So the answer you need here is I have been and still am,however I do my tuning when my budget allows me too since I do not have a free jet to tune on like yourself.

Cooper...
I am in agreement that there is AFC work needed and what it takes to rool a jet is completely different than what a truck would need on a pulling track or dragstrip.However,it still takes the proper amount of fuel to make the needed power and I am again lost when guys use minor tweakes with their pumps on their trucks and can attain big hp with a single chargered 12v.IF this was the case then wouldn't there be alot more trucks visible on the boards that went over the 600 threshold????......

Sled Puller was right way back when he coined the phrase...."Dyno Queens"........Andy
 
Hammer said:
Ah Young Brett...Mr.12v himself...
I am guessing that the sheer number of times my truck was strapped down last year while we sorted this deal out doesn't show I was doing anything?.While I understand what your saying I am not able to just use my own dyno like you can and strap down at will and for free to do my tuning.So the answer you need here is I have been and still am,however I do my tuning when my budget allows me too since I do not have a free jet to tune on like yourself.
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Im being serious, You dont need any big budget to adjust things on your 12v. And If i recall didn't cooper check/adjust your timing that day? I havent had my truck on the dyno since I took the twins off in the fall, have had too many trucks to work on. And Free Jet? yeah you work my hours big boy or can have the monthly payments. Anyways im not refering to me tuning on my truck it has sat more than anybodys truck the last 6 months. Im talking about every other guy out there fooling with there 12v trying things making adjustments then taking a test drive. You can tell a difference that way, dosent take a dyno but they are a good tuning tool.
 
actually taking the truck for a test drive after adjusting something in the afc is better than putting it on dyno, because the dyno won't load the truck the same, unless your talking about 3000lb mustangs or something then it will.
 
While I am in agreement with Andy here..

I am not disagreeing with anyone else here. IT seems that yes these 12 valves make alot of free power, but if you dont mess with them and try new things, they are not gonna do it.. I have yet to break 550 with my setup, and it says alot that other people IE brad ponci, jim fulmer, joe hellman, mike watkins, etc.. can get huge power numbers from pumps that have not been off the truck. My hat is off to them for their experience, know how and advise given on these forums.

But for some odd reason, or improper tuning, it does get difficult to get better numbers after 500 on a 12V for some odd reason. Its the boat ive been in for some time now... but you cannot have your cake and eat it too with a towrig that tows heavy, and too much HP...

my tuning is still in progress, but I will say, this is a very informative thread, but it does leave alot to wonder, and numbers vary greatly on 12v's IMHO... It should make this, it should make that, and then it dont... makes one either wonder, is the tuning right? or are the numbers BS...

FWIW, if a professional tunes the ride, it will do the best, but if an average DIY'er does it, it probably will not yield the same results. Even though its not rocket science it does take a special hand and alot of time to tune one of these things right...

Rick
 
I found it alot cheaper in the long run to have someone play with the pump. I Bought a brand new(still wrapped in the box) 887 pump a couple of years ago. I sent it to II to be set at 450cc. It came back with a $500 bill and some goofy tst plate. It wasn't even close to performing as well as the 350cc pump i had on my truck. i sent it to Brad Ponci. He did the work and sent it to a shop to balance the flow. I went from not quite 500hp to just over 600 with the same injectors and 181 dv's. Not all shops are created equal. Send it out and save the grief.
 
My name is Morse, and I'm an idiot when it comes to the P pump.. :bang I have to say if the pump is tuned by someone that knows the tricks, it makes all the difference in the world. Brad Ponci told me many ways to pull power out of the stock little 160 pump I have. I very much appreciated his advice, but it was a little over my head since I've never played with a p pump myself. It sounded so simple when he told me what to do. Then I would stare at my pump and see visions of it never running again if I tore into it.. Luckily there's another 160 pump guru that's not across the country from me. Turbomatt1 (Matt Wells) tuned my pump for me leaning over the fender of the truck one evening. It was never removed. My timing is currently set right around 20 degrees since I had originally thought of spraying. He used the completely stock 131 DV's along with a set of DDP 79's. I told him I wanted the most power possible out of it and still be able to tow my trailers while being a daily driver. Needless to say, I don't plan on spraying it at all any more. The truck runs with basicly no smoke, and egt's only get into the 1200's at wide open throttle. It's just silly and doesn't make sense to me how well it works. It's even more fun to drive than my 06 CR was. The first quarter mile was an 11.71. Again, that was diesel only. Matt drove the truck, and shifts his into overdrive manually. He tried that on mine, but I've got the push button that has a delay. He said he was on the governer springs before it shifted. The next pass he was confident it would drop a couple tenths. Well, it stripped the front planetary on the second pass. Garmon built the new trans, and it now feels faster.. I can see it running 11.5's on diesel. After that, I have another idea that will hopefully drop it atleast another .25 seconds on diesel only..

From one inexperienced tuner to all the others out there, take your truck to someone that has a truck that runs the numbers. Have the experienced tune it, and you will save a lot of money in the long run.. I went from disgusted, to having more than I expected, especially since mine is a 160 pump. If it were someone elses, I'd have a hard time believing the results. Can you tell I'm happy with the truck now? :rockwoot:
 
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