12v hp #'s

I forgot to mention, the turbos are a 57 over a 74. I got the kit from Wicked Diesels here on the forum as a responsive towing/playing setup..
 
I guess Ill jump in and ask this. Say you have a pump built by Columbus it flows 525cc's. That's plenty of fuel, its a reputable shop, but the truck wont bust 550hp. The timing is right, no fuel pressure issues and its a brand new 66mm charger making 60psi on the street. Now were do you start ?? You certainly wont blame Columbus, the truck runs great, so I too would wonder how some can make over 600 with a lot less pump. Lets say its AFC adjustment issues, are you really gonna pick up 50 or more hp with afc tweaks, I cant see it. Just thinking about it has me at a loss as well.
 
Timebomb said:
I guess Ill jump in and ask this. Say you have a pump built by Columbus it flows 525cc's. That's plenty of fuel, its a reputable shop, but the truck wont bust 550hp. The timing is right, no fuel pressure issues and its a brand new 66mm charger making 60psi on the street. Now were do you start ?? You certainly wont blame Columbus, the truck runs great, so I too would wonder how some can make over 600 with a lot less pump. Lets say its AFC adjustment issues, are you really gonna pick up 50 or more hp with afc tweaks, I cant see it. Just thinking about it has me at a loss as well.
Click to expand...

I picked up 44hp with only plate and afc adjustments. i would try some different dv's, the only time I like my full cuts is with nitrous.
 
It not always how much fuel you have its how you present it. afc tuning, the air ahead of fuel,timing etc........Its all about the small steps.
 
Young Brett.....
Maybe at times I come across a little to brass for you and some of the others which may skew your thoughts on what I am trying to get across.Yes,your right the truck got "Cooper-Tuned" at Cecil County to reset timing which we felt had slipped.This was what we came up with after the truck had been on 3 different jets(2 248C's and a 248H before yours)n less than 3 weeks and it laid down number which got worse with each roll.What we found astonished us when it was checked that day and when it rolled three back to back runs which got better in the 100+ degree heat we knew we were headed the right way.So fast forward toward Fall Brawl,2 more trips to the jet and a then a blown head gasket while killing a WRX and we keep working.

We find a head that was never sealed properly,leaking combustion in between cylinders and pushing out exhaust when you boosted the motor hard.Lloyd,Jim and Cooper got it back together for the Brawl,with freshly redone injectors and a re-torque done that Saturday done by Wes while I ran the show.Sunday brought us great air conditions with readings we have not seen in years and I rolled early and picked up little.The point here I am trying to make is we have been tuning,its explosive on the street but lays an egg on the jet.AFC and some minor tuning could be the issue but if you go with what everyone is saying they run to make power I can tell you there is not 100hp to gain in those little tunes.Maybe 50 but then we still fall way short of the magic 600 mark.

Ron....
I have sent the pumps out as I have two,both are 913's and one is new.They both have had the barrels and plungers changed to remove the retarding ones and both have been stand set up and readied.The shop and man who did this are known for their work and have some of the strongest P-Pumps running out east here.

Brad...
I agree that tuning will help but I know that I will not gain enough from the work to cross into the next HP plateau.

Again...
I will not dispute anyones numbers but I do tend to bust their stones about them at times.Numbers are what they are and we all have seen others do it.I have spent countless hours researching the answer,looked at hundreds of dyno files to see where power was made and looked at their mods yet no clear cut answer stands out.The amount of big single daily driver 12v's that lay over 600,on fuel only,on a dyno are few and far between.In all of my own records that I have from my clubs shows we have had ZERO since our first year.Heck 600 or better on fuel alone with a twinned 12v at our shows have only netted us 4(John_P-F8TLDose-JetPilot and Signal73).Heck even the"Sled Pulling God" Sled Puller himself only did 557 with his when his truck was fresh and had not yet won his back to back championships.That encompasses ALOT of trucks which were on the jet.I can not believe that everyone is out to lunch as we have seen some stout trucks cross the "Humbler".So till then I keep working and keep looking,maybe it will be this year who knows.

Someone said this would be a very informative thread and I agree.Who knows maybe someday someone will tells us all what we are missing and it will all fall into place..........Andy

P.S.-Weston....THANKS!
 
Timebomb said:
I guess Ill jump in and ask this. Say you have a pump built by Columbus it flows 525cc's. That's plenty of fuel, its a reputable shop, but the truck wont bust 550hp. The timing is right, no fuel pressure issues and its a brand new 66mm charger making 60psi on the street. Now were do you start ?? You certainly wont blame Columbus, the truck runs great, so I too would wonder how some can make over 600 with a lot less pump. Lets say its AFC adjustment issues, are you really gonna pick up 50 or more hp with afc tweaks, I cant see it. Just thinking about it has me at a loss as well.
Click to expand...

Precisely coop...

I am in agreement here, thus too much fuel will kill the run? B Ponci has that right, I have had that happen with full cuts and 370s.. zero boost whatsoever, alot of smoke, and a dead run at just under 450 rwhp... chargers didnt light rapidly enough..

Makes sence to hear that its all in how you present the fuel, A concept that Fulmer, Ponci, and several other gurus here say. Why does Jim Fulmer made 848? rwhp with a six plate? Again, its how he presents the fuel. and Mr. Ponci runs a killer 160 pump that has never been off the truck and does what it does, with proven results on Morse's (whom i think i saw on passtime recently) new lil 12V.

Morse, I am in perfect agreement that an experienced tinkerer makes all the difference over us DIYers, and apparent not know it alls such as myself. HEy i know nothing of what i have done with my 12V, and in all honesty feel like a failiure in a truck that keeps runnin worse and worse no matter what i try. which in turn

Links perfectly to what Ron says, "have a professional tune it, and be done with it." Save time, money and effort all in the long run.

Again i say, thank you very much to all those who post advise on what to do here, i for one truly appreciate it and have learned much from all of you on paper and a screen, My hats off to you gentlemen that make that sort of power.

FWIW for the DIYer who wants to play without a local set dyno, or local set work schedule and fluctuating days off, fluctuating shifts, random overtime, and a whole other life asides from work. Just get the pump sent off, or the truck tuned and enjoy your ride.. This is MHO. Hence the reason many people have such a good following, and loyal customers. Thank you 12V masters for all your time, efforts and educating the public with this thread..

Thanks from me to
Weston, Forrest Nearring, Mike Watkins, Mike Shannon, Timebomb, Jim Fulmer, Joe Hellman, Jeff Garmon, dzlfarmboy, Garrett shields, Chris Mayer, Brandon (joefarmer) and anyone else i have forgotten

Respectfully

Rick
 
Rick....
I do agree with what your saying in part anyway.Those tuners who can squeeze that little bit of extra out of their pump which have not been removed from the trucks are the ones who slip in,boast their accomplishments and leave without nary a comment left on what was done to accomplish this feat.What would be more helpful is when they do this would be to lay some info out on what they did to get there.It continues to amaze me that the computer scooter gang,both 24v and CR's,can share their info on tunes and injectors to get in the ballpark,but the 12v power brokers keep everything a national secret.

You make reference to have a shop "tune it and be done with it" and while thats a nice idea I can attest to that not being all its cracked up to be either.Timebomb can also back me up on this one as he knows first hand my frustration.I could show you a stack of receipts that would tell you NOT to even think of trying that theory.Its not just me who had issues like that I can tell you many who are in the same boat.

I am one who reads constantly about what guys have done and how they got there and tell it like it is,good or bad.At times I have more respect for a guy who tells you why the parts and money he spent didn't help him with his combo because he may have just saved you money.Those who slip in and boast their big numbers would command more respect from me if they were more definitive on their methods to get there.

I am in agreement with TimeBomb on this one as all the AFC tuning you could do would not net a owner 50-100hp.So again I will ask the question I asked earlier and yet no one has answered me......

IF a owner could make 600hp on fuel alone,with on engine pump tweaks and a big single charger,would their not be more owners bragging about making 600 and then 600hp 12v's would be the norm and not scarce like they are?......Andy
 
Hammer said:
Rick....
I do agree with what your saying in part anyway.Those tuners who can squeeze that little bit of extra out of their pump which have not been removed from the trucks are the ones who slip in,boast their accomplishments and leave without nary a comment left on what was done to accomplish this feat.What would be more helpful is when they do this would be to lay some info out on what they did to get there.It continues to amaze me that the computer scooter gang,both 24v and CR's,can share their info on tunes and injectors to get in the ballpark,but the 12v power brokers keep everything a national secret.

You make reference to have a shop "tune it and be done with it" and while thats a nice idea I can attest to that not being all its cracked up to be either.Timebomb can also back me up on this one as he knows first hand my frustration.I could show you a stack of receipts that would tell you NOT to even think of trying that theory.Its not just me who had issues like that I can tell you many who are in the same boat.

I am one who reads constantly about what guys have done and how they got there and tell it like it is,good or bad.At times I have more respect for a guy who tells you why the parts and money he spent didn't help him with his combo because he may have just saved you money.Those who slip in and boast their big numbers would command more respect from me if they were more definitive on their methods to get there.

I am in agreement with TimeBomb on this one as all the AFC tuning you could do would not net a owner 50-100hp.So again I will ask the question I asked earlier and yet no one has answered me......

IF a owner could make 600hp on fuel alone,with on engine pump tweaks and a big single charger,would their not be more owners bragging about making 600 and then 600hp 12v's would be the norm and not scarce like they are?......Andy
Click to expand...

There is tons of info on 12V setups out there to get you in the ballpark. Just because the parts are there doesn't mean that you have x amount of power with it, you have to adjust everything to make it work well together.

If you aren't getting the power your looking for by playing with the afc then make other changes. you can adjust the plate, change the plate, different dv's, adjust timing, play with your boost, the list goes on and on. Make one change at a time because if you change three things at once, one adjustment could have let you gain 30hp, but the other two combined with the third could make you lose 30.
 
A concept that Fulmer, Ponci, and several other gurus here say. Why does Jim Fulmer made 848? rwhp with a six plate?
Click to expand...

648 is the best I've done on #2, that was with Dragon Flows.

Jim
 
I have no idea how much hp my truck makes. Never been on a dyno. I can say it doesn't run right yet. I keep spending money, time, money, time.... I know I'll get it eventually. Maybe when I'm happy with how it runs just driving it, I'll put it on the rollers. But the number won't really matter too much to me. It's just a number.
 
Hey guys im looking at buying a 1995 12v and wanted to know a couple things.... first off the truck has 260,000 miles on it and most of the front end is rebuilt and the tranny is new but other than that is there anything that i need to worry about when buying an older 12v?

also it has these mods and i was wondering if anyone knew about how much power it would be making?
370 Injectors
Ground Plate
191 DV’s
3k gasket
AFC moded
14cm Exhaust Housing
4in Down Pipe
5in Exhaust
 
I'd be very interested in free roll vs. break loaded too. I'd imagine this makes a big difference especially if you can't get up on the charger just mashing it.
 
ok i know everyone laughed at my last dyno numbers the last time i went like two weeks ago. i plan on in the next week or two heading back and testing the new fuel plate and turbo. the fuel plate is custom ground pattern suggested by a friend of mine to try and the turbo is a 62mm extended tip S300G CAT turbo with an .80 housing. was curious as to what ppl would guess what my new numbers would be at before i go to the dyno again???:poke:
 
well I have made 621 on dunbars dyno at schied in 07

913 (full cuts 4k's 465cc's tight afc)
ddp4's
30* timing
marine pistons
buddha power cam
68mm s400 with the small turbine in a non gated .80 ar t3 (big ugly drive pressures)

have since put a bigger turbine wheel in the turbo
built a 13mm with 5k's and had lenny do some comps
looking for 700 on a single

this motor made peak at 3000 and was still over 500 at 3800 where the gov hit

my buddie cousin billy (brc diesel) also rolled 618 on fuel on dunbars with a street cam and a slight port job less timing than me and a pro street 66

the common factors between our 2 trucks and other ive seen over 600 is lots of timing (26*+) and properly tuned afc's with good supply systems I run aeromotive he runs a fass.

I only mention our 2 setups because it shows 2 differing ways to make 600 hp. mine is less driveable but has a wider powerband and makes power into the upper rpm ranges. I belive with a port job, an intercooler and a wastegate 700 in obtainable on a single from my setup. Ill have it ready at ts but im not sure what dyno they have
 
Doesnt take mass amounts of timing to get over 600, I did 652 with 15.5 * timing. Stock head (arp studs), stock cam, stock lines. Silver bullet 66, drive it everyday to work if I want to. Its all about getting the fuel where it should be and when it should be and I credit that to my pump which has been off the truck and gone through. Simple walboro pump. Doesnt take 13mm and 5ks to do it. Look what 160 guys are doing thats impressive. Im also going for 700 on a single soon as the weather breaks up here.
 
I keep hearing talks of getting the air in front of the fuel. Are you guys running the AFC so tight you can actually feel it in front of the governor arm via restricted pedal movement when trying to go wot until the boost builds? I'm all ears and it's killing me not being able to get the results I want from my truck.
 
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