12v hp #'s

Hopefully you gentlemen are not too fed up with rookies... well here goes again:

I would like to ask your opinion of my setup which is a 1995 4x4 2500 auto with 160 pump, custom ground fuelplate (somewhere between #100 and #10) full forward, AFC mods done for longer rack travel(full forward), 181seat/167dv combo, shimmed governor upto 3000, Mack plug, improved air, max boost 34psi, timing 14.5, freeflow 3" exhaust, stock turbo, stock injectors.

The truck is a daily driver and in every aspect it works tremendously well. But naturally when one is on his way to achieve more power then... well do I need to say more?

What could be the the approximate power and torque level of this setup? And if there's small things to change to achieve more hp&tq then what is limiting me now? Stock sticks?

I do NOT want to change the turbo. I can update to 4" exhaust.

What would you suggest?
 
JariV said:
Hopefully you gentlemen are not too fed up with rookies... well here goes again:

I would like to ask your opinion of my setup which is a 1995 4x4 2500 auto with 160 pump, custom ground fuelplate (somewhere between #100 and #10) full forward, AFC mods done for longer rack travel(full forward), 181seat/167dv combo, shimmed governor upto 3000, Mack plug, improved air, max boost 34psi, timing 14.5, freeflow 3" exhaust, stock turbo, stock injectors.

The truck is a daily driver and in every aspect it works tremendously well. But naturally when one is on his way to achieve more power then... well do I need to say more?

What could be the the approximate power and torque level of this setup? And if there's small things to change to achieve more hp&tq then what is limiting me now? Stock sticks?

I do NOT want to change the turbo. I can update to 4" exhaust.

What would you suggest?
Click to expand...

What is improved air? If you have the air to turn it injectors is your next upgrade for sure!
 
Improved air = bhaf. Just another way of saying it.
Injectors then, I might get my hands on a 210hp Cummins motorhome sticks. Don't have the numbers of them yet. I don't want to go too radical here so I was considering those. What should I be looking for possibly if those are not ok?

I would also like to ask your opinion on exhaust size. When do you really need to upgrade from 3" to 4"? At what power level?
I have a 5000-miles old exhaust under the truck and don't see the reason for 550+USD exhaust system if that only gives me something like additional 12-15hp and currently my truck can live well with my exhaust temps. I've looked at the newer H.O. Ram's and they have the 3" under there as well. I don't need the bigger exhaust to boast if the truck doesn't need it.
 
Motorhome injector numbers:
6820 frame, 6316 tip, 663, kdal59p6

How to identify what these are according to these numbers?
 
well i just got back from the dyno and made 458/1075 and then corrected i made 421/976 with
180 pump
18*
4kgsk
0 plate full forward
afc ff, starwheel ff, mack rack plug and afc setup for full rack travel
Ii dragon flows.
stock hx35/12cm housing, after i put on my 18.5cm exhaust housing i will dyno again with no other changes. see if i break 1000lb ft corrected. also any tips on how i should set my afc up would be appeciated or how i can get 24lb ft of torque would be great thanks.
 
and another video and a dyno graph


dynograph.jpg
 
JariV said:
I would also like to ask your opinion on exhaust size. When do you really need to upgrade from 3" to 4"? At what power level?
I have a 5000-miles old exhaust under the truck and don't see the reason for 550+USD exhaust system if that only gives me something like additional 12-15hp and currently my truck can live well with my exhaust temps. I've looked at the newer H.O. Ram's and they have the 3" under there as well. I don't need the bigger exhaust to boast if the truck doesn't need it.
Click to expand...
I have higher torque than most with the same hp, and hit peaks pretty quick (and have pretty flat curves.)

Part of what I feel is responsible for that is my 3" exhaust.

It moves a sufficient volume of air, at higher velocity for my setup.

You'd benefit from more timing, and bigger sticks (bigger than the motorhome sticks you are looking at most likely, not sure what the specs on those are)
 
9712valve said:
well i just got back from the dyno and made 458/1075 and then corrected i made 421/976 with
180 pump
18*
4kgsk
0 plate full forward
afc ff, starwheel ff, mack rack plug and afc setup for full rack travel
Ii dragon flows.
stock hx35/12cm housing, after i put on my 18.5cm exhaust housing i will dyno again with no other changes. see if i break 1000lb ft corrected. also any tips on how i should set my afc up would be appeciated or how i can get 24lb ft of torque would be great thanks.
Click to expand...

The larger exhaust housing should lower your torque not improve it
 
ME. said:
The larger exhaust housing should lower your torque not improve it
Click to expand...

your really think even with the huge amount of extra fuel i have plus i dynoed in 4th gear, not sure if thats what everyone else dynos in.
 
I have never broken 600hp on a 12v, in fact barley 450 on my (now sold) 97, and I doubt I am much over 250 on my 90.

However I have spent a good number of days playing on dyno's, and not just one style, I have had at least 10hrs of time on the following:

-Mustang
-Dynojet
-Superflow
-Dyno Dynamics

They are all funny creatures that are good for measuring change, but that is about it. I have tuned a turbo gas car, on a mustang that made 448whp. I took the same car in the same week, still on the same tank of fuel same tune, and with in 5 degrees temp. Ran it on a Dynojet and made 496whp. Now Dynojet's because of no load, are a pain in the ass to tune on, but are good to see how real world your setup is.

Let me quantify that:
-On a dynojet if you have a big laggy turbo, it is very hard to get it to light, but when it does watch out. This is just as on the street if you have a big laggy turbo, and are having a stop light to stop light race (I do not condone street racing this is for educational hypothetical purposes) a guy that may make 100hp less then you but has a quick lighting, quick spooling setup will demolish you.

-On a Mustang you can load the engine where ever you want, this is great for tuning as you can hold it at an rpm or speed and work on the tuning in that one area, and slowly progress, but it may give you a false sense of power at the end, as a setup may light and spool with the added resistance of the rollers and in 4th gear, it may not do so on the street in 2nd gear. Mustangs can also be hard to get accurate readings in BIG hp diesel trucks as they load so much that you can end up with traction issues.

They both have there positives and negatives, and are good for what they do (measure change) but in my mind the only real test is the track, either pulling or drag.

For guys out there looking to make some good numbers on a dynojet with full cuts or just too much early fueling, or with big hard to light chargers, there are lots of ways to "enhance" (I won't call it cheat, as you really aren't cheating it) your dyno numbers. Brake boosting works wonders. In this you apply the brakes well on the dyno to add some load and get the charger or chargers to come on, this takes some work to get the balance of how much break and how much fuel. I typically use mid throttle and some break till I see the charger come to just before it's sweet spot (the point where it is lit and boost happens NOW) at this point you should be right ready and you let off the brake and ROLL into the throttle, each setup is a bit different, so you have to play to see how fast that roll is to get the most out of your setup. Speaking of rolling into it, I find most novice dyno users, like to stab the throttle when the operator says go, now if your setup is spot on, this might work, my experience has been that you get better results rolling into it.

What I am getting at is there are many ways to get the most out of a setup, and sometimes it isn't the truck, that needs adjustment to get the "number" you are looking for.

I am sure there will be lots of people that will disagree with me, but that is fine, as these are just my experiences. $.02
 
I would tighten down your afc some. I would think the dragon flows need some room before full fuel is supplied. Just a thought.
 
displacedtexan said:
I have higher torque than most with the same hp, and hit peaks pretty quick (and have pretty flat curves.)

Part of what I feel is responsible for that is my 3" exhaust.

It moves a sufficient volume of air, at higher velocity for my setup.

You'd benefit from more timing, and bigger sticks (bigger than the motorhome sticks you are looking at most likely, not sure what the specs on those are)
Click to expand...

Thank You. A lot! This was precisely what I was wondering myself and you confirmed it very comprehensively.
I'm now contemplating on the timing once again. When I had my timing done my original plan was 16. Why it was left to 14.5 was the strict emission tests here in Finland and the truck needs to pass them without another timing set.

Since there are a lot of people here with lot's of knowhow then in your opinion how much timing would you see to be a good compromise between emissions and power? 16? 18? Or?

Well those sticks were a total bargain so they are the ones I'm going to use. Hard to get info of them though but there's quite a comprehensive writing about this subject regarding nozzle sizes in this forum so I guess that I will do some studying of my own once I get the sticks in my hands.
 
dvst8r said:
I have never broken 600hp on a 12v, in fact barley 450 on my (now sold) 97, and I doubt I am much over 250 on my 90.

However I have spent a good number of days playing on dyno's, and not just one style, I have had at least 10hrs of time on the following:

-Mustang
-Dynojet
-Superflow
-Dyno Dynamics

They are all funny creatures that are good for measuring change, but that is about it. I have tuned a turbo gas car, on a mustang that made 448whp. I took the same car in the same week, still on the same tank of fuel same tune, and with in 5 degrees temp. Ran it on a Dynojet and made 496whp. Now Dynojet's because of no load, are a pain in the ass to tune on, but are good to see how real world your setup is.

Let me quantify that:
-On a dynojet if you have a big laggy turbo, it is very hard to get it to light, but when it does watch out. This is just as on the street if you have a big laggy turbo, and are having a stop light to stop light race (I do not condone street racing this is for educational hypothetical purposes) a guy that may make 100hp less then you but has a quick lighting, quick spooling setup will demolish you.

-On a Mustang you can load the engine where ever you want, this is great for tuning as you can hold it at an rpm or speed and work on the tuning in that one area, and slowly progress, but it may give you a false sense of power at the end, as a setup may light and spool with the added resistance of the rollers and in 4th gear, it may not do so on the street in 2nd gear. Mustangs can also be hard to get accurate readings in BIG hp diesel trucks as they load so much that you can end up with traction issues.

They both have there positives and negatives, and are good for what they do (measure change) but in my mind the only real test is the track, either pulling or drag.

For guys out there looking to make some good numbers on a dynojet with full cuts or just too much early fueling, or with big hard to light chargers, there are lots of ways to "enhance" (I won't call it cheat, as you really aren't cheating it) your dyno numbers. Brake boosting works wonders. In this you apply the brakes well on the dyno to add some load and get the charger or chargers to come on, this takes some work to get the balance of how much break and how much fuel. I typically use mid throttle and some break till I see the charger come to just before it's sweet spot (the point where it is lit and boost happens NOW) at this point you should be right ready and you let off the brake and ROLL into the throttle, each setup is a bit different, so you have to play to see how fast that roll is to get the most out of your setup. Speaking of rolling into it, I find most novice dyno users, like to stab the throttle when the operator says go, now if your setup is spot on, this might work, my experience has been that you get better results rolling into it.

What I am getting at is there are many ways to get the most out of a setup, and sometimes it isn't the truck, that needs adjustment to get the "number" you are looking for.

I am sure there will be lots of people that will disagree with me, but that is fine, as these are just my experiences. $.02
Click to expand...

Very well put:clap:
 
Chevycummins said:
played on the dyno today got 251 HP 701 TQ

* 190 hp industrial app 12v
* stock holset 35
* stock plate forward
* afc star wheel forward
* red oak diesel injectors (5x12) supposed to add up to 100hp said to be similar to 370 marine injectors dont know much the guy wants to keep his secret formula hidden.
* timing bumped to approx 15*-16*
* stock gsk
* nv4500 trans
* 4.10 gears on 35 in tires.
* 131 DV'S.
:woohoo:

plan to go with an S300 series turbo next.
Click to expand...

went to the dyno again today and had some odd situations did three runs first one was 366.2 HP @2750 718.8 TQ @2600 on the first run, second was 359.3 hp @ 2750 713.4 TQ @ 2550, third run was 360.7 HP @ 2450 810.6 TQ @ 2250

dont know what you want to consider my numbers are at but thats what i got today and i have only added a fuel plate and turned my afc back a little and 4GSK along with the s300G 62mm turbo with .80 exhaust housing. oh and yes a valair clutch that holds (thanks Dan):rockwoot:

and i have found out that its only a 12mm pump with 131 DV's so yes i know i am a little short on fuel and i dont have an intercooler.
 
im going back to the dyno tommorowin Buda i wont see 600 but hoping for a little more LOL oh and pump never been off the truck single charger.
 
Nothing to brag about but I got my 97 5 speed on the rollers today. 100 plate, mild 16* of timing, 370s, stock everything else. Made 356hp with 718torque.
 
We dynoed the motor the other day at Scheid's...
13mm
Extrude Honed
Water/Air
Our own Intake Design
Scheid Charger
Between 30-40 degree's of timing
NO :nos:
ALL ON #2

1002HP/2145TQ
 
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