Nope. The links do work, looks good.
1951 Cockshutt 30–1.9L TDI Swap
- Thread starter CTD2500
- Start date
Powerstroke Cowboy
Boost is energy held back
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- Feb 22, 2011
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They are not showing up, but the links do work. It's looking good!
1320Cummins
2G Collector
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- Feb 1, 2009
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- 369
Your skill and patience never fails to impress me! Pics look good.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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- Aug 3, 2013
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- 491
Thanks, everyone. It is nice to have it in finally.
I don’t know what happened with the pictures; it looks like every pic I’ve posted since the new website has changed to a link. Maybe I crossed a threshold of how many is allowed or something.
That’s something I’ll have to figure out going forward, I guess.
I don’t know what happened with the pictures; it looks like every pic I’ve posted since the new website has changed to a link. Maybe I crossed a threshold of how many is allowed or something.
That’s something I’ll have to figure out going forward, I guess.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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- Aug 3, 2013
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- 491
I’m about a week behind, but last weekend I managed to out a few things on the tractor.
This is the turbo and intake manifold installed. The turbo is a stock GT15 from an AHU TDI engine, modded with a spring gate.
After that I got the starter painted and installed it the next day. I’m using the original Cockshutt 30 starter, which I had rebuilt at a local auto-electric shop. It was originally a 6 volt, but we’ll see how it cranks the diesel over with two batteries. That’s about it for now; the rest of the weekend was quite busy.
This is the turbo and intake manifold installed. The turbo is a stock GT15 from an AHU TDI engine, modded with a spring gate.
After that I got the starter painted and installed it the next day. I’m using the original Cockshutt 30 starter, which I had rebuilt at a local auto-electric shop. It was originally a 6 volt, but we’ll see how it cranks the diesel over with two batteries. That’s about it for now; the rest of the weekend was quite busy.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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A small update on the new SX-R turbos. I installed the interstage drive pressure gauge and went for a drive to see what the ratio is with the new primaries.
The first few PSI stays almost inline, drive maybe one or two points higher. At 5 PSI of boost, drive hits 10, so roughly double—this is the worst spot. As boost climbs, drive stays about 5 psi higher, which shrinks as a ratio as boost climbs. At 20 PSI of boost, drive is 25, or a ratio of about 1.25. This is at 60 PSI total boost.
That was the highest number I hit on that trip; I meant to do a harder run, but traffic got in the way and I had to get home so I ran out of time.
I would have to look back in this thread to see what the ratio was with the 57 SX-E, but I seem to remember it being more like 1.8 or higher. For this application, I would say the new SX-R is looking pretty good!
I’d like to see what the total drive ratio is, but the plug in the manifold is seized (and it’s hard to reach) so I’ll have to deal with that another day.
The first few PSI stays almost inline, drive maybe one or two points higher. At 5 PSI of boost, drive hits 10, so roughly double—this is the worst spot. As boost climbs, drive stays about 5 psi higher, which shrinks as a ratio as boost climbs. At 20 PSI of boost, drive is 25, or a ratio of about 1.25. This is at 60 PSI total boost.
That was the highest number I hit on that trip; I meant to do a harder run, but traffic got in the way and I had to get home so I ran out of time.
I would have to look back in this thread to see what the ratio was with the 57 SX-E, but I seem to remember it being more like 1.8 or higher. For this application, I would say the new SX-R is looking pretty good!
I’d like to see what the total drive ratio is, but the plug in the manifold is seized (and it’s hard to reach) so I’ll have to deal with that another day.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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I had to order some items before I could continue with the tractor, so until those come in, I’m kinda stuck.
I did manage to delete the vacuum pump, which I had previously gutted, plugged off and painted, but once the engine was in I realized it was gonna hit the fuel tank mount.
For that, I made a simple block off plate and sealed it with RTV.
Below that you can see where the coolant port mounts (gray area), and the plastic one I have for it is too big and it hits the adapter plate. I will have to make one, but I had to order some 1.25” pipe.
I also had to order a longer oil line for the turbo because the routing I had planned ended up being in the way of the future exhaust location. I did get the drain installed though.
I have to get busy on cleaning and painting the floor panels so I can install them because they act as a stop for the pedals, which I won’t be able to mount and adjust otherwise.
In other news, I managed to take the truck for a few test runs to compare drive pressure readings.
Before I give the numbers, I will point out that I reinstalled the fuel plate, which I did some more grinding on after I removed it months ago. I don’t know exactly how that will limit fuel compared to being plateless; it still smokes when I lean on it from zero boost, but once it’s spooled up there’s really no smoke to speak of.
That said, full throttle boost was about 80 PSI, with about 70 of drive pressure. Primary boost hit 30, with drive at about 40.
Doing the classic compound math, overall boost is about a 6.4 PR, with 2.9 primary, which puts the manifold turbo at about 2.1–or about 17 PSI as a single.
Drive pressure did seem to go higher when RPMs went past 3000, (I didn’t get a chance to see the numbers clearly) but in the range I use most of the time it works well.
One thing I don’t like is how high drive pressure is when the vanes are closed. It hits 15 or so before boost gets to its first few pounds, although it kind of hangs there as throttle goes up and boost rises. By the time boost hits 30 PSI, drive pressure is generally lower—like about 25–and it stays like that to varying degrees up to 80 PSI, until RPMs get excessive.
It’s kind of neat to watch drive pressure with the Turbonator, honestly. When it hits about 20, it hangs there and if you give it more throttle, it actually drops back to 15 as the vanes open; then it rises from there if you give it more fuel, albeit slower in relation to boost. If you let off the throttle partly, drive pressure will jump back up when the vanes close and will fall from there if you let off slowly.
I do wish the VGT spooled faster off the line, though. That’s my only real complaint. I miss having the 57 SX-E on the manifold; that thing spooled like a supercharger, but with the 61mm turbine wheel and .7 housing there’s no way I’d be getting low drive pressures like the 68/VGT can achieve.
I did manage to delete the vacuum pump, which I had previously gutted, plugged off and painted, but once the engine was in I realized it was gonna hit the fuel tank mount.
For that, I made a simple block off plate and sealed it with RTV.
Below that you can see where the coolant port mounts (gray area), and the plastic one I have for it is too big and it hits the adapter plate. I will have to make one, but I had to order some 1.25” pipe.
I also had to order a longer oil line for the turbo because the routing I had planned ended up being in the way of the future exhaust location. I did get the drain installed though.
I have to get busy on cleaning and painting the floor panels so I can install them because they act as a stop for the pedals, which I won’t be able to mount and adjust otherwise.
In other news, I managed to take the truck for a few test runs to compare drive pressure readings.
Before I give the numbers, I will point out that I reinstalled the fuel plate, which I did some more grinding on after I removed it months ago. I don’t know exactly how that will limit fuel compared to being plateless; it still smokes when I lean on it from zero boost, but once it’s spooled up there’s really no smoke to speak of.
That said, full throttle boost was about 80 PSI, with about 70 of drive pressure. Primary boost hit 30, with drive at about 40.
Doing the classic compound math, overall boost is about a 6.4 PR, with 2.9 primary, which puts the manifold turbo at about 2.1–or about 17 PSI as a single.
Drive pressure did seem to go higher when RPMs went past 3000, (I didn’t get a chance to see the numbers clearly) but in the range I use most of the time it works well.
One thing I don’t like is how high drive pressure is when the vanes are closed. It hits 15 or so before boost gets to its first few pounds, although it kind of hangs there as throttle goes up and boost rises. By the time boost hits 30 PSI, drive pressure is generally lower—like about 25–and it stays like that to varying degrees up to 80 PSI, until RPMs get excessive.
It’s kind of neat to watch drive pressure with the Turbonator, honestly. When it hits about 20, it hangs there and if you give it more throttle, it actually drops back to 15 as the vanes open; then it rises from there if you give it more fuel, albeit slower in relation to boost. If you let off the throttle partly, drive pressure will jump back up when the vanes close and will fall from there if you let off slowly.
I do wish the VGT spooled faster off the line, though. That’s my only real complaint. I miss having the 57 SX-E on the manifold; that thing spooled like a supercharger, but with the 61mm turbine wheel and .7 housing there’s no way I’d be getting low drive pressures like the 68/VGT can achieve.
Interesting to hear that you wished the turbonator spooled faster off the line. Are there any vane "stop" adjustments on that turbo for both the open and closed position? Mabye the vanes are closed too much at idle and not letting enough exhaust flow through after idle. Might be better to open the vanes a touch more and gain response just after idle (closed position). That was a 68mm turbine wheel right?
Your turbonator 68/62 is a big jump from the old fixed geometry manifold turbo at 61/57. What about putting a 64-65mm turbine wheel in the turbonator with one of your old 57 SX-E compressors? Could put a bushing in that turbonator and machine it to fit that 64mm (s200?) wheel that was used in the s300g. We've put bushings in turbine housings before to put a smaller wheel in.
www.spturboost.com
Your turbonator 68/62 is a big jump from the old fixed geometry manifold turbo at 61/57. What about putting a 64-65mm turbine wheel in the turbonator with one of your old 57 SX-E compressors? Could put a bushing in that turbonator and machine it to fit that 64mm (s200?) wheel that was used in the s300g. We've put bushings in turbine housings before to put a smaller wheel in.
Borg Warner S300 Turbo Turbine Shaft & Wheel 74mm x 65mm (10 Blades)
Turbo Model: Borg Warner S300 SKU: 862-1167-002 S300 Turbo Turbine Shaft And Wheel 74mm x 65mm 10 Blades Replacement turbine wheel for 174430 Balanced and ready to use. ***Important Note*** There is no warranty, instructions, or tech support on any DIY products. Click here for details.
www.spturboost.com
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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There is a minimum position adjustment for the vanes, which I have messed with quite a bit. It seems to be at the best spot right now; if I go tighter, drive pressure jumps quite a bit more and spool up change is negligible. Last week I loosened it half a turn and drive pressure dropped maybe 10%, but I gained 100-150 RPM of spool delay, so I put it back to where it was.
I personally think they designed the Turbonator for 6.7L engines, but sell them for all generations. I also think it really shines when used with bigger turbos, like a 66/73 or bigger.
It is quite a big housing; the volute is pretty large, so even with the vanes set tight there is quite a bit of expansion happening inside the housing before the exhaust hits the turbine wheel, so it probably makes less difference with a smaller unit like 62/68.
I have looked at those SPT turbine wheels before. It’s nice that they sell the 65/74 wheel with the newer 10 blade design, it’s just too bad it doesn’t fit an S200. There is a 65/74 wheel for the S200, but it’s the older 11 blade design, like the Aurora 3000 turbine. The guy at AGP Turbo (Ben?) said they’re not much of an upgrade over the 61mm SX-E turbine, which is a newer design.
I’ve given thought to trying the Villain 9cm housing on the manifold, which may spool better, but I don’t think it would have the low drive pressure on the top end like I have now. And I’d have to make a new hotpipe for it to fit.
I’ve thought about quite a few different options for the manifold turbo, but there always seems to be a trade off on spool vs drive pressure.
It could just be that I got spoiled by the 57, lol. It’s hard to get the best of both worlds, but it’s not like the Turbonator spools terribly. To compare, if I’m in overdrive with the torque converter locked and I let it slow down as much as possible and then roll into the throttle, I would see the first pound of boost with the 57 at 1100 RPM, and with the Turbonator it happens at 1250. When accelerating from a stop when the t/c isn’t locked, it starts making boost at 1500, and with the 57 I think it was about 1300-1350.
I personally think they designed the Turbonator for 6.7L engines, but sell them for all generations. I also think it really shines when used with bigger turbos, like a 66/73 or bigger.
It is quite a big housing; the volute is pretty large, so even with the vanes set tight there is quite a bit of expansion happening inside the housing before the exhaust hits the turbine wheel, so it probably makes less difference with a smaller unit like 62/68.
I have looked at those SPT turbine wheels before. It’s nice that they sell the 65/74 wheel with the newer 10 blade design, it’s just too bad it doesn’t fit an S200. There is a 65/74 wheel for the S200, but it’s the older 11 blade design, like the Aurora 3000 turbine. The guy at AGP Turbo (Ben?) said they’re not much of an upgrade over the 61mm SX-E turbine, which is a newer design.
I’ve given thought to trying the Villain 9cm housing on the manifold, which may spool better, but I don’t think it would have the low drive pressure on the top end like I have now. And I’d have to make a new hotpipe for it to fit.
I’ve thought about quite a few different options for the manifold turbo, but there always seems to be a trade off on spool vs drive pressure.
It could just be that I got spoiled by the 57, lol. It’s hard to get the best of both worlds, but it’s not like the Turbonator spools terribly. To compare, if I’m in overdrive with the torque converter locked and I let it slow down as much as possible and then roll into the throttle, I would see the first pound of boost with the 57 at 1100 RPM, and with the Turbonator it happens at 1250. When accelerating from a stop when the t/c isn’t locked, it starts making boost at 1500, and with the 57 I think it was about 1300-1350.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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I didn’t mention this last night when I wrote that latest turbo essay, but I didn’t think it was very interesting—until I discovered something today when I got home from work.
So I filled the rear end of the tractor with gear oil yesterday evening; 4 3/4 Imperial Gallons of 90 weight is what the original manual calls for, which translates into 19.3 litres of 80w90 in today-speak. I was going to mention this during the next tractor update.
When I got home today, however, the garage smelled like gear oil, which I thought was because I’d put fresh stuff in and there was likely some residual lying around, but then I saw a puddle under the rear tire.
Looks like the wheel seal is leaking. Good thing I got new seals back when I ordered the steering box parts, along with the brake seals and all that.
I was going to change those seals near the end, when I have the other wheels painted and tires mounted and ready to swap on—and I might still. I don’t want it leaking out the whole time, but I noticed the other wheel wasn’t leaking, likely because the floor in there is angled toward the drain, so the oil ran downhill to that side and leaked out.
For now, I rolled that wheel up onto a 2x4 to level it. Maybe now I’ll find out if the other wheel is leaking too.
So I filled the rear end of the tractor with gear oil yesterday evening; 4 3/4 Imperial Gallons of 90 weight is what the original manual calls for, which translates into 19.3 litres of 80w90 in today-speak. I was going to mention this during the next tractor update.
When I got home today, however, the garage smelled like gear oil, which I thought was because I’d put fresh stuff in and there was likely some residual lying around, but then I saw a puddle under the rear tire.
Looks like the wheel seal is leaking. Good thing I got new seals back when I ordered the steering box parts, along with the brake seals and all that.
I was going to change those seals near the end, when I have the other wheels painted and tires mounted and ready to swap on—and I might still. I don’t want it leaking out the whole time, but I noticed the other wheel wasn’t leaking, likely because the floor in there is angled toward the drain, so the oil ran downhill to that side and leaked out.
For now, I rolled that wheel up onto a 2x4 to level it. Maybe now I’ll find out if the other wheel is leaking too.
Agreed 100% regarding the turbonator being sized for the 6.7. One other option is to get a GTA4082KLNV and have a killer manifold turbo for the 5.9L. GTA4082klnv has a 68mm turbine exducer and a 55.5-56mm compressor inducer. I'm swapping out my Villan with 57mm compressor for this turbo! My villan with 68 turbine and 57mm compressor works ok as the secondary but its a touch big for my 2.0L diesel with manual transmission when leaving the line. I should have had my villan machined for the 74x65 wheel when Brad gave me suggestion and option. Turbine speed on the villan didn't exceed 140K with the "enlarged" wastegate being 100% disabled. I might be running upto 600hp at the crankshaft with this 2.0L diesel.
Wait... so you can't put the 65/74 turbine wheel into your sxe/sxr 58 ?
Wait... so you can't put the 65/74 turbine wheel into your sxe/sxr 58 ?
Yup mine is the old Schwitzer/Super B 174430. I simply swapped out the 76x65 turbine wheel for a 76x68 turbine wheel it then drops into the villain or any 68mm s300 turbine housing.
Guess you could get a s300g/s300gx and place that into your turbonator with the 68mm wheel swapped in of course. That should spool faster but probably not tons better than your 62mm.
Guess you could get a s300g/s300gx and place that into your turbonator with the 68mm wheel swapped in of course. That should spool faster but probably not tons better than your 62mm.
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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The Super B has the 57 sx-e compressor wheel now, which is nice, but they are pretty expensive to buy these days. They call the Borg version the S300gx-e, the “e” representing the sx-e compressor wheel. I’ve given thought to machining my spare s300 chra to fit my 57 sx-e cover/wheel and using that, but like the tractor engine adapter, I’d be waiting forever for my brother (the machinist of the family) before I can do that. The sx-e compressor wheel bore would have to be enlarged from 7 to 8mm as well, which has to be done very precisely.
I’ve also given thought to the .83 efr turbine housing. The 7670 efr has the same wheel sizes as the sx-e and that turbine housing supposedly has a very large wastegate. I don’t know what mods it takes to mount one to an sx-e chra though.
I wonder how that would work, using the smaller, faster spooling s200 turbine with the ability to bypass a lot of exhaust around it.
I’ve also given thought to the .83 efr turbine housing. The 7670 efr has the same wheel sizes as the sx-e and that turbine housing supposedly has a very large wastegate. I don’t know what mods it takes to mount one to an sx-e chra though.
I wonder how that would work, using the smaller, faster spooling s200 turbine with the ability to bypass a lot of exhaust around it.
I'm biased to my option of bushing your turbonator down to fit the 65mm wheel and put your 57sx-e into it or... sell your turbonator to me,lol. Hard to beat variable geometry when sized right especially when used as a secondary turbo except the fact that they can benifit with the use of a load reference to open vanes under low load conditions (like cruising).
When using properly sized "fixed Geometry" compounds without nitrous I find that wasteagting around the secondary is not so crucial. This as you know can be verified using exhaust pressure and shaft speed as a reference.
efr turbine wousing would be cool!
When using properly sized "fixed Geometry" compounds without nitrous I find that wasteagting around the secondary is not so crucial. This as you know can be verified using exhaust pressure and shaft speed as a reference.
efr turbine wousing would be cool!
CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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I know what you mean about the low-load driving. The turbonator cruises with around 12-15 PSI of back pressure vs 3-4 PSI of boost, which I kind of hate seeing when the gauge is installed. (I removed it early last week)
I do love this setup, honestly. Boost vs drive above 20 PSI or so is great, I just wish it spooled like the S200 did on the manifold. The primaries spool amazing, on the other hand.
I think a wastegated fixed-geo housing that’s small enough to out-spool the Turbonator would aways have higher drive pressure, even if it had more absolute flow (going through the gate port as well as the turbine exducer vs just the turbine on the VGT) because the VGT can change the angle of attack on the wheel. Meaning the vanes being open directs the exhaust deeper into the blades which makes more shaft speed/boost with less drive pressure. A fixed-geo housing can’t do that, so regardless of the gate being closed or open it still takes a certain amount of drive pressure to make a certain amount of boost. I don’t know if I’m thinking about it right, maybe a good analogy would be a fixed-geo housing being like a car stuck in first gear, as opposed to a car that can shift up into overdrive and go much faster with less RPM.
I think keeping drive pressure that good with a gated housing requires proper turbine vs compressor wheel sizing.
I’ve toyed with the idea of modding the Turbonator for a smaller setup like you said, even installing a whole S200 into it using the 61mm turbine. The issue, like I said, is relying on my brother for the machine work. If I were to downsize the S300 to the 65mm turbine, I think I would try it first with the same compressor (62/65) just to see what happens.
As far as the EFR housing goes, I guess we’re gonna find out if it will fit, or made to fit. I ordered one from Florida that I found new for about $550 USD. That seemed like a decent price (these days) considering they are fully stainless. If nothing else, it’ll become another conversation piece like all the other random turbine housings and compressor wheels (etc) that I’ve bought and never used, lol.
I guess I should include some tractor stuff while I’m here.
I managed to make a new coolant elbow for the back of the TDI yesterday. I don’t think I’ll paint it yet; I need to run the engine with coolant in it first to make sure the welds are waterproof. Using a flux core kinda sucks, but it’s all I have here.
I’ll get more pics of it when it’s installed. I have to make a gasket for it still. There wasn’t much room for it; the original plastic VW part was way too big.
I do love this setup, honestly. Boost vs drive above 20 PSI or so is great, I just wish it spooled like the S200 did on the manifold. The primaries spool amazing, on the other hand.
I think a wastegated fixed-geo housing that’s small enough to out-spool the Turbonator would aways have higher drive pressure, even if it had more absolute flow (going through the gate port as well as the turbine exducer vs just the turbine on the VGT) because the VGT can change the angle of attack on the wheel. Meaning the vanes being open directs the exhaust deeper into the blades which makes more shaft speed/boost with less drive pressure. A fixed-geo housing can’t do that, so regardless of the gate being closed or open it still takes a certain amount of drive pressure to make a certain amount of boost. I don’t know if I’m thinking about it right, maybe a good analogy would be a fixed-geo housing being like a car stuck in first gear, as opposed to a car that can shift up into overdrive and go much faster with less RPM.
I think keeping drive pressure that good with a gated housing requires proper turbine vs compressor wheel sizing.
I’ve toyed with the idea of modding the Turbonator for a smaller setup like you said, even installing a whole S200 into it using the 61mm turbine. The issue, like I said, is relying on my brother for the machine work. If I were to downsize the S300 to the 65mm turbine, I think I would try it first with the same compressor (62/65) just to see what happens.
As far as the EFR housing goes, I guess we’re gonna find out if it will fit, or made to fit. I ordered one from Florida that I found new for about $550 USD. That seemed like a decent price (these days) considering they are fully stainless. If nothing else, it’ll become another conversation piece like all the other random turbine housings and compressor wheels (etc) that I’ve bought and never used, lol.
I guess I should include some tractor stuff while I’m here.
I managed to make a new coolant elbow for the back of the TDI yesterday. I don’t think I’ll paint it yet; I need to run the engine with coolant in it first to make sure the welds are waterproof. Using a flux core kinda sucks, but it’s all I have here.
I’ll get more pics of it when it’s installed. I have to make a gasket for it still. There wasn’t much room for it; the original plastic VW part was way too big.
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CTD2500
Brown Between the Cheeks
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I’ve been trying to rip through a bunch of painting before the weather turned cold, and last weekend I made a decent little dent—although not as much as I’d hoped, because I got sick and have been all week. I still kind of am.
Anyway, I got the floor panels cleaned up and painted last weekend, since I need them in place to get the pedals properly in place. They act as a stop for the pedals, but also have the return springs attached to them.
Today, I got them installed. (I still have one brake pedal to strip and paint.)
Then I installed the clutch rod and adjusted it for length. Once that was set, it got paint too.
I was hoping to have the fuel tank mount and instrument panel cleaned and painted by now too, but that will have to wait for next weekend. Once that is done I can start installing the gauges and ignition switches, etc.
Anyway, I got the floor panels cleaned up and painted last weekend, since I need them in place to get the pedals properly in place. They act as a stop for the pedals, but also have the return springs attached to them.
Today, I got them installed. (I still have one brake pedal to strip and paint.)
Then I installed the clutch rod and adjusted it for length. Once that was set, it got paint too.
I was hoping to have the fuel tank mount and instrument panel cleaned and painted by now too, but that will have to wait for next weekend. Once that is done I can start installing the gauges and ignition switches, etc.