2011 Badger Truck Pullers Rules

duramaxsandwich said:
badger tractor rules same as your guys now?
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Badger state tractors says right in the rule book 200lbs over center of axle badger trucks its not in the rules for some reason but was talk about it would be the same just have 200lbs over the axle
 
WI Huck said:
I wish that were the case, but when we started the Badger Truck diesel class the DHRA rules we adopted had a twin class. Since then lots of things have changed nationally and Badger Truck has not. It is hard to tell people that they can no longer be a part of your club, but with a national set of rules we would not have the problem we are having now with board members going behind closed doors and making up rules that don’t apply to their own trucks (single turbo trucks) and making stuff up to limit the twin turbo trucks. I would not have a problem with their ruling if it had been voted on by everyone and not just “clarified” on their own.
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My opinion is you have to do everything you can in this area to get every truck to pull. There just isn't the numbers that there are in OH or KY.

I still think pulling in this area is in the growing time and a few years away form good numbers. I think all clubs in the area should try to have similar long term goals. What they are the clubs should all get together and decide. Based on the way things are going, I feel that 3.0 with protrusion open drive line is where it will be. If that is the case then i feel all clubs should set their goals and rules up to those rules. Then add some sort of wording to allow guys to continue to build their trucks to that level, and still be somewhat competitive with the 3.0 trucks so that the show is better. Like "let the 1 ton drive train run a bushed charger where the open has to have protrusion."

I like the way the badger rules are worked for twins but I think they should be for 1 ton drive train only. I disagree with allowing twins on an open drive line no matter what the turbo rules are. But I also agree with the principle complaint of Mark as the changing of the rules as to not what was voted on.

I also think our diesel groups should do more to encourage a current gas puller to make an diesel swap in their puller. Maybe have some thing that say tube frame, fiberglass tilt bodies can pull with a restriction in weight to 7500 pounds and limited to like 137" wheelbase, single 3.0 protrusion turbo.

I just feel we need to work to get more pullers and not push any away. So make rules to accommodate all pullers now but with the understanding that long term 3.0 open drive train is the ultimate goal. Anyone that wants to switch to open drive train may have to make a turbo change. If they want to stay with their twin setup they will have to stay 1 ton drive train. Sooner or later more and more trucks will be open driveline, it is just a matter of time.
 
lubeowner said:
My opinion is you have to do everything you can in this area to get every truck to pull. There just isn't the numbers that there are in OH or KY.

I still think pulling in this area is in the growing time and a few years away form good numbers. I think all clubs in the area should try to have similar long term goals. What they are the clubs should all get together and decide. Based on the way things are going, I feel that 3.0 with protrusion open drive line is where it will be. If that is the case then i feel all clubs should set their goals and rules up to those rules. Then add some sort of wording to allow guys to continue to build their trucks to that level, and still be somewhat competitive with the 3.0 trucks so that the show is better. Like "let the 1 ton drive train run a bushed charger where the open has to have protrusion."

I like the way the badger rules are worked for twins but I think they should be for 1 ton drive train only. I disagree with allowing twins on an open drive line no matter what the turbo rules are. But I also agree with the principle complaint of Mark as the changing of the rules as to not what was voted on.

I also think our diesel groups should do more to encourage a current gas puller to make an diesel swap in their puller. Maybe have some thing that say tube frame, fiberglass tilt bodies can pull with a restriction in weight to 7500 pounds and limited to like 137" wheelbase, single 3.0 protrusion turbo.

I just feel we need to work to get more pullers and not push any away. So make rules to accommodate all pullers now but with the understanding that long term 3.0 open drive train is the ultimate goal. Anyone that wants to switch to open drive train may have to make a turbo change. If they want to stay with their twin setup they will have to stay 1 ton drive train. Sooner or later more and more trucks will be open driveline, it is just a matter of time.
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That doesn't make any sense, gassers need numbers too. And clubs need total numbers in general too, why in the hell would you rob peter to pay paul??? You aren't helping the overall status of the club! Maybe the diesel class, but not the club...

And why have a overall goal to all reach 3.0" protrusion ODL, and have a rule that is good only for your club??? On a national level, I don't think you will ever see tube chassis and fiberglass bodies in the 3.0" class... But, maybe i'm wrong!
 
Yellow Jacket said:
That doesn't make any sense, gassers need numbers too. And clubs need total numbers in general too, why in the hell would you rob peter to pay paul??? You aren't helping the overall status of the club! Maybe the diesel class, but not the club...

And why have a overall goal to all reach 3.0" protrusion ODL, and have a rule that is good only for your club??? On a national level, I don't think you will ever see tube chassis and fiberglass bodies in the 3.0" class... But, maybe i'm wrong!
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The time has probably ended of taking a street driven truck and building it up to make it into a puller and still trying to keep it somewhat streetable. They are now full time pulling trucks. There are only a few ways to get a fully built pulling truck, build it or buy it. Why not encourage people looking at getting in this class to start with a rolling gas chassis off a place like racing junk? Make the rules so they can easily do that?

What rules do you think are the most recognized as National now and in the future, PPL, NTPA, NADM?
 
lubeowner said:
The time has probably ended of taking a street driven truck and building it up to make it into a puller and still trying to keep it somewhat streetable. They are now full time pulling trucks. There are only a few ways to get a fully built pulling truck, build it or buy it. Why not encourage people looking at getting in this class to start with a rolling gas chassis off a place like racing junk? Make the rules so they can easily do that?

What rules do you think are the most recognized as National now and in the future, PPL, NTPA, NADM?
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ITPA, they probably have more hooks in a 3.0" ODL class than anyone and PPL...

NTPA just adopted 4x4 PSD last season for events...so definitely not them.

So if these trucks are all dedicated we should say screw DOT tires and we should be allowed to run bar tires if we want to then...

There is plenty of open street trucks out there that have steel bodies on them and stock frames, just stretch the frame and lengthen the box or cab... There is no reason to allow fiberglass bodies, and if they buy a truck with one, sell it off and put a steel one on it. Even most Super Stock trucks have stock frames under them, just replace the fiberglass body with steel...
 
The turbo rule Badger Truck has for the 2011 year is exactly the same end result as the last 5 years. IT HASN'T CHANGED!

The new wording only prevents somebodies wrong interpretation of the rule. A MWE groove could always of been run in the past, and still, as long as it is doing what it was intended to do.
A bushing or stepped cover was legal in the past, and guess what.... IT STILL IS!

As far as the class going to single chargers only, maybe some day it will get voted in, until then, twins allowed.
 
dmaxlover said:
The turbo rule Badger Truck has for the 2011 year is exactly the same end result as the last 5 years. IT HASN'T CHANGED!

The new wording only prevents somebodies wrong interpretation of the rule. A MWE groove could always of been run in the past, and still, as long as it is doing what it was intended to do.
A bushing or stepped cover was legal in the past, and guess what.... IT STILL IS!

As far as the class going to single chargers only, maybe some day it will get voted in, until then, twins allowed.
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Hey John, what was Otto up to last year? I thought I seen one video last season that had his truck in it with a hood stack...
 
dmaxlover said:
The turbo rule Badger Truck has for the 2011 year is exactly the same end result as the last 5 years. IT HASN'T CHANGED!

The new wording only prevents somebodies wrong interpretation of the rule. A MWE groove could always of been run in the past, and still, as long as it is doing what it was intended to do.
A bushing or stepped cover was legal in the past, and guess what.... IT STILL IS!

As far as the class going to single chargers only, maybe some day it will get voted in, until then, twins allowed.
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Turbochargers are limited to two turbochargers only. Single turbos are unlimited. For multiple turbos, the inducer bore on the atmosphere compressor housing(s) may be no larger than 3.0 inches measured at the smallest diameter area of the compressor wheel. A bushing may be used to downsize the compressor housing ahead of the wheel. If a bushing or stepped cover is used, the bore must be round, at least 3/4 inch long, mounted within 0.050 inch of the compressor wheel and the inside diameter of the bore may not exceed the 3.0 inch limit. The inducer bore will be measured using a 3.05 inch plug. All provisions allowing air to the wheel other than via the bore are prohibited if the atmospheric turbo is not a true 3” turbo, meaning the compressor wheel protrudes into a 3” inducer bore with no step, clipping, bushing, etc. Stock MWE grooves are permitted on true 3” atmospheric turbo(s). (2011)

It looks to me like a bushing or stepped cover is legal with a MWE grove in a single setup, but not in a twin set up like I had last year. The changes you made are further holding back twin set ups with your clarification. And to make things worse the final say goes to the tech official which is guess who?
 
ramtough01 said:
Badger state tractors says right in the rule book 200lbs over center of axle badger trucks its not in the rules for some reason but was talk about it would be the same just have 200lbs over the axle
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So BTPA rules say we can cut out our bed floors. I don't remember anything being discussed on this. There is nothing in the 2011 rules??
 
jimdmax said:
So BTPA rules say we can cut out our bed floors. I don't remember anything being discussed on this. There is nothing in the 2011 rules??
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I thought i heard talk if a truck came in with no bed floors and such it had to add 200lbs over the axle
 
WI Huck said:
Turbochargers are limited to two turbochargers only. Single turbos are unlimited. For multiple turbos, the inducer bore on the atmosphere compressor housing(s) may be no larger than 3.0 inches measured at the smallest diameter area of the compressor wheel. A bushing may be used to downsize the compressor housing ahead of the wheel. If a bushing or stepped cover is used, the bore must be round, at least 3/4 inch long, mounted within 0.050 inch of the compressor wheel and the inside diameter of the bore may not exceed the 3.0 inch limit. The inducer bore will be measured using a 3.05 inch plug. All provisions allowing air to the wheel other than via the bore are prohibited if the atmospheric turbo is not a true 3” turbo, meaning the compressor wheel protrudes into a 3” inducer bore with no step, clipping, bushing, etc. Stock MWE grooves are permitted on true 3” atmospheric turbo(s). (2011)

It looks to me like a bushing or stepped cover is legal with a MWE grove in a single setup, but not in a twin set up like I had last year. The changes you made are further holding back twin set ups with your clarification. And to make things worse the final say goes to the tech official which is guess who?
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Not that I really have any say in it but from the outside looking in it looks like they clarified the rule from last year which read that if you run twins it is limited to a 3" inlet with no air allowed to the wheel other than through the 3" bore.

This year they clarified that you can run a MWE groove if it is a true 3" turbo since this will not allow air into the wheel. If you run a stepped cover then this groove will allow air to the wheel essentially making the 3" rule useless. So if your turbo was not a true 3" turbo or has a stepped cover and has a MWE groove that is allowing air to the wheel then it technically was not legal last year and shame on the tech guys for allowing it then. Just my $.02
 
ramtough01 said:
Badger state tractors says right in the rule book 200lbs over center of axle. Badger trucks its not in the rules for some reason but was talk about it would be the same just have 200lbs over the axle
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I thought Badger State tractors run PPL rules and that is why they have the link on the web site. I don't read any rule in PPL that says anything about the 200 pounds.

Here is the only PPL rule that I can find on the body:
1. Class will run at 8000 lbs. Trucks must remain stock appearing.

I don't see anywhere that there is any mention of bed floor, or that the body must be steel or that is can't tilt.

I also can't find any rule that has any stipulation on the frame material only wheelbase length.

2. Maximum wheelbase permitted 158”.
 
we pulled with bstp last year with a gutted bed and didnt have to add weight, when we pull itpa we had to pull 200 lbs light cause we had no way to hang weight over rear axle.
 
lubeowner said:
I thought Badger State tractors run PPL rules and that is why they have the link on the web site. I don't read any rule in PPL that says anything about the 200 pounds.

Here is the only PPL rule that I can find on the body:
1. Class will run at 8000 lbs. Trucks must remain stock appearing.

I don't see anywhere that there is any mention of bed floor, or that the body must be steel or that is can't tilt.

I also can't find any rule that has any stipulation on the frame material only wheelbase length.

2. Maximum wheelbase permitted 158”.
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It says truck must remain stock appearing and there is no mention of that rule in the super stock pick-up class. Ts and scheid state full metal body so you couldn't pull at those places.
 
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Yellow Jacket said:
It says truck must remain stock appearing and there is no mention of that rule in the super stock pick-up class
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And that is where rule interpretation comes into play.

Call this guy and ask him what that rule means.

Larry Richwine, Dir. of Technical Services
6705 E 900 N, Brownsburg, IN 46112
PH 317-852-0630 FAX 317-852-6459
 
t-roy said:
we pulled with bstp last year with a gutted bed and didnt have to add weight, when we pull itpa we had to pull 200 lbs light cause we had no way to hang weight over rear axle.
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You were suppose to but it was never brought up
 
JerrodGlover said:
What does the NTPA tech guy have to do with PPL rules?
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NTPA's 3.0 class has the exact same wording. Want them to get an outside opinion, not mine vs. his vs. someone else in our clubs.

Also, NTPA has started a regional group in this area for the 3.0 trucks and I am sure the discussion will come up at one of those events also. Might as well get it all cleared up now.
 
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