2011 Badger Truck Pullers Rules

[dmaxlover]

Not that I really have any say in it but from the outside looking in it looks like they clarified the rule from last year which read that if you run twins it is limited to a 3" inlet with no air allowed to the wheel other than through the 3" bore.

This year they clarified that you can run a MWE groove if it is a true 3" turbo since this will not allow air into the wheel. If you run a stepped cover then this groove will allow air to the wheel essentially making the 3" rule useless. So if your turbo was not a true 3" turbo or has a stepped cover and has a MWE groove that is allowing air to the wheel then it technically was not legal last year and shame on the tech guys for allowing it then. Just my $.02

:thankyou2:

Obviously the rule sucks if only a few people understand it, but my above post is good. If your turbo was legal last year, and the previous 4 years to that, you will be legal this year (2011). I'm not saying if you pasted tech last year, you will pass tech this year (my fault for screwing up tech last year), but like I said and will repeat, IF YOUR TWIN TURBO CONFIGURATION WAS LEGAL THE LAST 5 YEARS, IT WILL STILL BE LEGAL FOR 2011!!

Is there anyone that still does not understand? I don't know if I can make it any clearer.

 

[Yellow Jacket]

NTPA's 3.0 class has the exact same wording. Want them to get an outside opinion, not mine vs. his vs. someone else in our clubs.

Also, NTPA has started a regional group in this area for the 3.0 trucks and I am sure the discussion will come up at one of those events also. Might as well get it all cleared up now.

It doesn't really matter what their tech officals say right now they only have 2 hooks and tomah and if they let them hook then so be it, but stock appearing would probably mean firewall and floor and last time I checked fiberglass bodies don't have either. If they let them hook then we will know how big of an advantage they have.

 

[lubeowner]

It doesn't really matter what their tech officals say right now they only have 2 hooks and tomah and if they let them hook then so be it, but stock appearing would probably mean firewall and floor and last time I checked fiberglass bodies don't have either. If they let them hook then we will know how big of an advantage they have.

Since you won't call him.....

Stock appearing means that it must look like a truck. It must "appear" to look like a stock truck, it can't be a t-bucket, panel van, tractor, mini-rod and so forth.

I for one am not looking at this from what type of advantage they have, it is about having the most fun pulling. Think how nice it will be to not have to work on your truck with the fenders in the way.

 

[Yellow Jacket]

Since you won't call him.....

Stock appearing means that it must look like a truck. It must "appear" to look like a stock truck, it can't be a t-bucket, panel van, tractor, mini-rod and so forth.

I for one am not looking at this from what type of advantage they have, it is about having the most fun pulling. Think how nice it will be to not have to work on your truck with the fenders in the way.

We will have fenders on our truck because we want to pull at national events. We have a chevy so we don't have to work on it every week our truck actually sat on the trailer all last year anything we tinkered with we did it right on the trailer. I am glad to see your going to have a truck to pull this year so you don't have to sideline pull with everyone elses.

 

[WI Huck]

:thankyou2:

Obviously the rule sucks if only a few people understand it, but my above post is good. If your turbo was legal last year, and the previous 4 years to that, you will be legal this year (2011). I'm not saying if you pasted tech last year, you will pass tech this year (my fault for screwing up tech last year), but like I said and will repeat, IF YOUR TWIN TURBO CONFIGURATION WAS LEGAL THE LAST 5 YEARS, IT WILL STILL BE LEGAL FOR 2011!!

Is there anyone that still does not understand? I don't know if I can make it any clearer.

So why did you need to clarify with all the talk of steps and clips? The rule was clean and simple "All provisions allowing air to the wheel other than via the bore are prohibited." If the air gets to the wheel from any other source besides the bore it fails inspection. Why all the grief about MWE groves last year then? If the grove is inside the bore and not feeding the wheel separately everything is fine. Go back to the voted on amendment and be done with it. :rules:

 

[Yellow Jacket]

we pulled with bstp last year with a gutted bed and didnt have to add weight, when we pull itpa we had to pull 200 lbs light cause we had no way to hang weight over rear axle.

Yeah, others pulled with a percentage hitch rule instead of 44" like the rules state and people ran an open charger or non-protruded... The teching is a joke, but if people had any decency it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[WI Huck]

I thought Badger State tractors run PPL rules and that is why they have the link on the web site. I don't read any rule in PPL that says anything about the 200 pounds.

Here is the only PPL rule that I can find on the body:
1. Class will run at 8000 lbs. Trucks must remain stock appearing.

I don't see anywhere that there is any mention of bed floor, or that the body must be steel or that is can't tilt.

I also can't find any rule that has any stipulation on the frame material only wheelbase length.

2. Maximum wheelbase permitted 158”.

Badger State does use the PPL Pro Street Diesel Truck rules. Last year the number of people who joined that class was lower than desired, so for this year the turbo rule was changed to match the Badger Truck Pullers rule and sipped tires are allowed on non-dully trucks like Badger Truck. The goal is to have more diesel truck members for this year since the rules are basically the same for both clubs now. If you don’t have a bed floor and are willing to put 200 pounds over the rear axle (which weighs way more than a bed floor) I am sure you won’t be turned away.

Badger State has higher payouts and higher profile pulls. There will be more pulls for the diesel trucks than there was for last year and the membership costs were reduced, so you will easily make back your investment. Be sure to sign up by the end of this month with Badger State for the discounted membership price. http://www.bstponline.org/

 

[dmaxlover]

So why did you need to clarify with all the talk of steps and clips? The rule was clean and simple "All provisions allowing air to the wheel other than via the bore are prohibited." If the air gets to the wheel from any other source besides the bore it fails inspection. Why all the grief about MWE groves last year then? If the grove is inside the bore and not feeding the wheel separately everything is fine. Go back to the voted on amendment and be done with it. :rules:

Because there would be a few that would not pass tech this year if nothing was said. If they fully understand the rule now, they have most of the winter to get things in line, vs two weeks if it didn't pass at tech day.

The only reason for the rule clarification was due to the abuse of the rule last year.

You might think that us single turbo guys are trying to screw over the twin turbo trucks, but there wasn't one twin truck turned away last year, and I know for a fact, a few of them were illegal.
Just imagine last year if you showed up to the 1st pull and expected to get your truck teched and pull, only to not pass tech and keep the truck strapped to the trailer while you watch everyone have fun. That would suck right? With the clarification of the rule, there are no excuses this year to show up with a illegal setup, cause everyone has ample time.

 

[WI Huck]

The turbo rule Badger Truck has for the 2011 year is exactly the same end result as the last 5 years. IT HASN'T CHANGED! The new wording only prevents somebodies wrong interpretation of the rule. A MWE groove could always of been run in the past, and still, as long as it is doing what it was intended to do.
A bushing or stepped cover was legal in the past, and guess what.... IT STILL IS!

As far as the class going to single chargers only, maybe some day it will get voted in, until then, twins allowed.

:thankyou2:

Obviously the rule sucks if only a few people understand it, but my above post is good. If your turbo was legal last year, and the previous 4 years to that, you will be legal this year (2011). I'm not saying if you pasted tech last year, you will pass tech this year (my fault for screwing up tech last year), but like I said and will repeat, IF YOUR TWIN TURBO CONFIGURATION WAS LEGAL THE LAST 5 YEARS, IT WILL STILL BE LEGAL FOR 2011!!

Is there anyone that still does not understand? I don't know if I can make it any clearer.

Because there would be a few that would not pass tech this year if nothing was said. If they fully understand the rule now, they have most of the winter to get things in line, vs two weeks if it didn't pass at tech day.

The only reason for the rule clarification was due to the abuse of the rule last year.

You might think that us single turbo guys are trying to screw over the twin turbo trucks, but there wasn't one twin truck turned away last year, and I know for a fact, a few of them were illegal.
Just imagine last year if you showed up to the 1st pull and expected to get your truck teched and pull, only to not pass tech and keep the truck strapped to the trailer while you watch everyone have fun. That would suck right? With the clarification of the rule, there are no excuses this year to show up with a illegal setup, cause everyone has ample time.

So which is it? Are you intentionally making things difficult so the tech officials with the final word can interpret the rules any way they want on a particular day? Come on man! This is crap and you know it. How hard is it to understand that no air can get into the turbo other than through the bore? If you know for a fact that some turbos were illegal last year, it was your job as a tech official to point that out. That is a big problem with the Badger Truck Pullers Association, there is too much favoritism for certain pullers, and it does not appear to be a level playing field for everyone. What would suck is building a truck according to the rules and then find out now that you were competing against trucks that were not, and the tech official knew about it! Stick to the rules for both creating them and enforcing them.

 

[bubba2400]

Tech officials are elected at the spring meeting so there is a chance that you could be a tech official. They always take volunteers before appointing people!

 

[lubeowner]

Isn't this argument from Mark really about his turbo? I have never seen this turbo so I don't know any of the spec. on it.

His turbo has a map width groove and a bushing or stepped cover? His map groove enters into the bore?

With the old rule he would be legal, as air is only enter via the bore?
With the rules "clarification" he can't run a map groove at all? So now he is illegal?

If this is all true, then your "clarification" changed the rules.

 

[bubba2400]

Isn't this argument from Mark really about his turbo? I have never seen this turbo so I don't know any of the spec. on it.

His turbo has a map width groove and a bushing or stepped cover? His map groove enters into the bore?

With the old rule he would be legal, as air is only enter via the bore?
With the rules "clarification" he can't run a map groove at all? So now he is illegal?

If this is all true, then your "clarification" changed the rules.

It would be legal if the groove does not allow air to the wheel. But, if the cover is stepped or cut or whatever to fit a larger wheel my guess is that the groove is now allowing air to the wheel, which is why there is such a fuss. If it just has a bushing he should be good to go. But without pictures or any of us seeing the turbo it is all speculation. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to post pictures of their stuff at all however!

 

[dmaxlover]

All I know about Marks turbo is that it's a HX60. Now somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but a HX60 has a inducer bore larger than 3". So that means either it was illegal due to not having a 3" bore, it had a bushing, or it had a 3" cover on it that was then cut to fit the larger than 3" wheel.

From what Mark had been pushing for rules, I'm guessing he did not have a bushing. So let's say the cover was cut, ok that's fine and will pass tech.
Now, doesn't a HX60 come stock with a MWE groove, and doesn't this groove enter the bore right over the inducer diameter of the wheel? If so, and the cover was cut the MWE groove now enters into a diameter that's larger than 3" making it illegal cause it will suck air through the groove vs blowing it out. Or even this year, if the groove enters into the 3" bore, it's no longer "stock" due to it's before the wheel and again making it illegal.

The new wording is doing exactly what it was meant to do. Stir the rule up enough to make people aware of what, where, and how they went wrong in the past, and all of this with really no change to the rule at all.

All you guys had to do is abide by the rules and none of this would even be a issue.

I can only say for Mark is that he is the only one making an issue out of this, meaning that his turbo was clearly illegal last year, causing him to make adjustments for 2011.
Mark, I can see your point in the wording of the rule should not of changed without a vote, but the board agreed that since the rule did not change, it did not require a vote.

 

[WI Huck]

My argument isn’t about making things better for my truck, it is about the behind the scenes politics BS going on in this club. Re-read my posts. I hold no secrets. Come and tech my truck at any pull. Don’t make false accusations without any proof. Your clarifications made things worse as far as understanding the rule, not better and those clarifications only benefit the single turbo trucks like yours and Mikes. That is what this argument is all about. If the rule would apply to all trucks in the class I would not have such a problem with it. If this would have been discussed and voted on I would not have a problem with it. It is the preferential treatment for the board members who made these rules up that bothers me.

 

[lubeowner]

All I know about Marks turbo is that it's a HX60. Now somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but a HX60 has a inducer bore larger than 3". So that means either it was illegal due to not having a 3" bore, it had a bushing, or it had a 3" cover on it that was then cut to fit the larger than 3" wheel.

From what Mark had been pushing for rules, I'm guessing he did not have a bushing. So let's say the cover was cut, ok that's fine and will pass tech.
Now, doesn't a HX60 come stock with a MWE groove, and doesn't this groove enter the bore right over the inducer diameter of the wheel? If so, and the cover was cut the MWE groove now enters into a diameter that's larger than 3" making it illegal cause it will suck air through the groove vs blowing it out. Or even this year, if the groove enters into the 3" bore, it's no longer "stock" due to it's before the wheel and again making it illegal.

The new wording is doing exactly what it was meant to do. Stir the rule up enough to make people aware of what, where, and how they went wrong in the past, and all of this with really no change to the rule at all.

All you guys had to do is abide by the rules and none of this would even be a issue.

I can only say for Mark is that he is the only one making an issue out of this, meaning that his turbo was clearly illegal last year, causing him to make adjustments for 2011.
Mark, I can see your point in the wording of the rule should not of changed without a vote, but the board agreed that since the rule did not change, it did not require a vote.

But if Marks turbo had the map groove come into the bore, even though it was not stock, did not make it illegal last year. There was no stipulation on the map groove last year. So his turbo may have in fact been legal last year but with your new "clarifications" made illegal this year.

It all come back to Mark's map groove, isn't this the whole reason for doing tech on a truck? It seems like you failed to do it last year, so now everyone has to assume what Mark has. If it was properly teched last year there would not be this discussion now.

 

[bubba2400]

But if Marks turbo had the map groove come into the bore, even though it was not stock, did not make it illegal last year. There was no stipulation on the map groove last year. So his turbo may have in fact been legal last year but with your new "clarifications" made illegal this year.

It all come back to Mark's map groove, isn't this the whole reason for doing tech on a truck? It seems like you failed to do it last year, so now everyone has to assume what Mark has. If it was properly teched last year there would not be this discussion now.

No, the rule did not change from last year, they were just clarified. You could run a map groove last year and every year before, it just could not allow air to the wheel. So the rules have not changed it was just clarified. Same reason Mark brought up the map groove at the meeting to clarify that it was legal, which it always has been as long as it does not allow air to the wheel!!!!

 

[dmaxlover]

THE RULE DID NOT CHANGE! Hence, it does not benefit me or mike or anyone else that has a single turbo truck more than it did the last 5 years.

And yes Jeremy you are correct. If the mwe groove was before the wheel last year, it would of been legal, but a well known diesel built his turbo, and I highly doubt they would've done unnecessary machining just for the hell of it, cause that groove would've been completely worthless.

 

[WI Huck]

So why all the drama? Why was it so necessary to get things so mixed up. Tech the trucks and be done with it. Don’t speculate and make accusations. Your “clarification” was not needed and only made things worse.

All provisions allowing air to the wheel other than via the bore are prohibited if the atmospheric turbo is not a true 3” turbo, meaning the compressor wheel protrudes into a 3” inducer bore with no step, clipping, bushing, etc. Stock MWE grooves are permitted on true 3” atmospheric turbo(s).

The above statement could easily be interpreted to mean that stepped wheels are not allowed in a twin setup. It could also be interpreted to read that air is allowed to the wheel that is not through the bore if the turbo is a true 3” wheel. See what I mean?

That is why these changes are made out in the open and voted on. Leave the amendment stand as it was voted on. Do the inspections and turn away the people who don’t pass.

 

[olblue359]

Can't we all just get along, pull our trucks, drink beer!!! Just settle the rules 3.0 charger like the national levels...and make it easier for guys that are building up there trucks

 

[Yellow Jacket]

NTPA's 3.0 class has the exact same wording. Want them to get an outside opinion, not mine vs. his vs. someone else in our clubs.

Also, NTPA has started a regional group in this area for the 3.0 trucks and I am sure the discussion will come up at one of those events also. Might as well get it all cleared up now.

Our NTPA rule book showed up today and the rule says "Trucks must have full size steel or OEM type body. The bed of the truck must have metal floor. If bed is gutted, 200lbs. of moveable weight must be placed rearward of the centerline of the rear axle."