Aftermarket CR head.

How much different are the D-max injectors apposed to the CR Cummins injectors. I agree, for now stick with a stock injector design. But maybe later you could offer a full out design that would offer removable injector cups to use the D-max injectors with a CR setup, possibly offer prebent lines aswell, and for a VP or p-pump guy, have different injector cups made to accept John Deere or IH injectors with prebent lines aswell. Offer it as a package deal to where possibly if machining and design allows, have one casted head to use for either application and just use which ever injector cups to use with that particular injection setup. This way you don't have to try to make 3 different style heads just based on injection setups. Just have 2 designs, one with the original cross over tube setup, and another that allows the use of different cups and the lines aswell with out the cross over tube and allow more room for a better port design.

Also for the VP and p-pump conversion guys using the original injector setup, you could offer cross over tubes that will work with the regular p-pump conversion or stock VP lines using the CR style tubes.
 
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I think we kind of walked the line of an all out race piece and a daily driver piece pretty good on our 12v. It has small ports that have great velocity and good flow at lower rpm for street trucks and yet it has thick enough port walls to be able to handle large valves and a lot of porting to support the big boys that only make power over 5,000rpm.

I don't think it will be that easy to duplicate our results on the CR head due to the complications of the injection system. Even with the complications involved, greg has assured me we can get 240+ CFM out of a cast head with no porting. This will be agreat upgrade, but it would be nice to see how far we could take it with a no holds barred approach to our design. Maybe someday.
 
Hamilton Cams said:
I probably should Lee.

They should end up being less than the 12v head.
They will come in either a stock intake or a ZZ style cast manifold. From a manufacturing standpoint, the CR is a much bigger market so we will attack that. With a new set of lines and some small tweeks they will work fine on a 24v so we will do the CR.

My hope is to make the port walls thick enough, so that the larger bore engines can accept larger valves and some extreme porting! We will be building a large bore engine with a 5.9 crank and some high rpm programming to really see the maximum potential of this head.

Zach
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So is there an intake on the CR head, or were you referring to the 12v head here?

If you made it accept top feed injectors, I wouldn't object to that. But my injectors don't cost thousands of dollars for a set right now, so I am more open to change.
 
To keep tooling costs down, we had planned to leave the outside of the common rail head stock appearing. The stock intake is not up to the task of feedin the cylinders adequately in a performance engine so it would have to be removed. We had planned on doing that at the factory with the exception of a few pieces for people that couldn't run a side flow.
 
Maybe I missed it, but you mill off the intake plennum to match a ZZ Fabs side intake plennum?
 
I would be interested in one of the heads for the CR and if you went with the Dmax style injector version I would like that would make for a trick look and the guys that are speding the money to build a race motor would not mind the extra cost involved to get that extra edge
 
Just to throw this out there, does anyone know what injectors Hypermax is using with thier p-pump 7.3L Ford conversions? A setup similar to this is what i was thinking as far as using injector cups for various injectors. Even if this option was offered, the cups could be machined and set out as blanks for the end user to machine thier selves for what ever injector they choose to run possibly.

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those look like 12 valve injectors....but they look too skinny and long, but i see the idea your bringing up! Could open up some injector possibilities! cool!
 
Just give me a call Zach and you can have my truck any time to test this head vs a head P&P'ed by you with a Zz side intake.
 
Just to clear this up, are we looking at a head with no cast-in manifold, available with either a side-entrance bolt-on or a stock-style bolt-on manifold?

What does a stock head (non-ported and ported) flow? I saw the 12v numbers, don't think I saw CR ones.

x2 or 3 on the tapped plugs. That's the one thing I didn't do to mine (along with machining the mani off) I'm kind of wishing I had.
 
According to PDRs website, A stock 24v head flows 161 CFM on the intake and 173 on the exhaust. Their stage 2 porting bumps that up to 181 intake and 205 exhaust. All measurements taken a .4" lift.

It doesn't say if it that is a vp head or a CR head, I don't really think there is that big of a difference between the 2 on flow.
 
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The stock Cummins 24 valve cylinder head flows 170 cfm exhaust and 151 on the intake side. After our Stage 1 Diesel CNC Porting the exhaust improves to 199 cfm while the intake will flow 180 cfm. Want to step up your program a bit more? With Stage 2 Diesel CNC Porting the exhaust will flow 210 and the intake 201 cfm.

Chevrolet Vortec Bow-Tie Cast Iron Cylinder Heads
 
I have been bogged down on new projects trying to tie up some loose ends on the 12v project and working with a new cam core and the fact that I had to take a few weeks off to get married.


I am back in the office as of today. I am working with Greg Young on the port design of the 24v style head for the CR's. Due to the fact that there are 4 valves, there are a lot of different considerations and intricacies with water passages and clearances as well as a lot of differences on swirl in the cylinder.

To clear it up we are talking about a cylinder head that is most likely going to be cast without an intake on it. There will be a few different options as to which style of intake that it can be ordered with. As injector technology and aftermarket ECM's change so does potential design characteristics for what we are doing. Regardless of what we do, I want it to cover the widest part of the market. Feel free to post up any suggestions you may have.

Zach Hamilton
 
Lose the 127 water core plugs.........





Ok so I inflated the number- you get the point.....
 
Hamilton Cams said:
To clear it up we are talking about a cylinder head that is most likely going to be cast without an intake on it. There will be a few different options as to which style of intake that it can be ordered with. As injector technology and aftermarket ECM's change so does potential design characteristics for what we are doing. Regardless of what we do, I want it to cover the widest part of the market. Feel free to post up any suggestions you may have.

Zach Hamilton
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Sounds good Zach, thanks for clearing up.

Congrats on tying the knot as well
 
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