Billet 5.9 Rods

Imho...one was a torsional failure...and the other was bending/shear/tension. I bet the "short" one was yielded during installation (not saying it was over tightened...could have been a bad batch...or could have been over tightened). That bolt continued to yield during the 50 passes till it broke. The other bolt then was bent and torn apart.
 
No matter how it got to where it is, larger bolts would have addressed it. I have no metallurgical eye, but i don't like the circular pattern I see on that one bolt. If they want to stick to 7/16's fine, but 1/2 can be done and it's a good spot for some over kill. Word is the new Woodruff's are going to have an even stronger fastener setup.
 
There was no low blow here at all. Just the facts and that is no one knows what caused the issue. Was the bolt the first to fail or was it something else that caused the bolt to fail.

The answer isn't bigger's better. Think about the difference people are talking about here. 7/16” bolt to a 1/2” bolt, that’s only 0.030” per side. You need to understand the failure and then make an informed decision. TTS didn't sell the rods and NONE of our dealers did but we were still willing to help. Yes, they are our design but that was the end of it. What's funny about all this is how no one wants to know or care what really happened.
 
Diesel Tech said:
There was no low blow here at all. Just the facts and that is no one knows what caused the issue. Was the bolt the first to fail or was it something else that caused the bolt to fail.

The answer isn't bigger's better. Think about the difference people are talking about here. 7/16” bolt to a 1/2” bolt, that’s only 0.030” per side. You need to understand the failure and then make an informed decision. TTS didn't sell the rods and NONE of our dealers did but we were still willing to help. Yes, they are our design but that was the end of it. What's funny about all this is how no one wants to know or care what really happened.
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You say no low blow, but yet you keep saying that no one wants to learn (so we are ignorant), or cares what really happened.

Now with this post it sure sounds like you are implying that you are the only one capable of the analyses to figure out the failure, but I honestly can't imagine you would be that hubristic.

Yes we did go with another rod manufacturer for this next engine, but it doesn't mean that I don't care what the failure in this engine was.
 
Does anyone offer a longer 5.9 rod off the shelf?

If one is making pistons and going billet rods, it would be nice to improve rod length a bit.

I talked to a big name rod manufacturer about this. They took their existing 5.9 rods @ $$$$, added in $$$$ additional engineering, $$$ additional material, and $$$$ setup fee. I wasn't impressed.

I'm calling someone else on monday and ordering a set. The only thing about this set that is 5.9 spec is the big end width.
 
Looks like those bolts came loose then failed or the bearing failed and allowed the rod to beat itself apart.
 
little6cylinder said:
Look at the arp link I posted.... That's not what it looks like at all.
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You do not need to even look at the bolt. Look at the multiple impacts the rod cap has on its face. It didn't just let go at once, it got beat against the other mating surface.
 
Turning 3000 rpm = 50 smacks a second. If the bolt let go instantly, there would still markings from the 2 mating surfaces.
 
SINNER said:
You do not need to even look at the bolt. Look at the multiple impacts the rod cap has on its face. It didn't just let go at once, it got beat against the other mating surface.
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You actually think in an engine making 1500+ hp a loose rod bolt would make more then one revolution? And have time to beat the rod and cap together? If i had to guess I'd say the damage your talking about is from after the bolt broke, when the rod hit everything else.
 
9724VF350 said:
Does anyone offer a longer 5.9 rod off the shelf?

If one is making pistons and going billet rods, it would be nice to improve rod length a bit.

I talked to a big name rod manufacturer about this. They took their existing 5.9 rods @ $$$$, added in $$$$ additional engineering, $$$ additional material, and $$$$ setup fee. I wasn't impressed.

I'm calling someone else on monday and ordering a set. The only thing about this set that is 5.9 spec is the big end width.
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Yes, its about $500 extra
 
dvst8r said:
You say no low blow, but yet you keep saying that no one wants to learn (so we are ignorant), or cares what really happened.

Now with this post it sure sounds like you are implying that you are the only one capable of the analyses to figure out the failure, but I honestly can't imagine you would be that hubristic.

Yes we did go with another rod manufacturer for this next engine, but it doesn't mean that I don't care what the failure in this engine was.
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You seem to want to twist things around as that is NOT what I said. Yes, I said that it seems no one wants to find the cause of the problem yet you keep saying it was a rod bolt failure as the cause without doing any of the necessary work to see what happened.

If you had sent things out so they could be inspected by someone with the ability to do it the story would be different, but you have not. It doesn't have to be us (after all they are not our parts) but it does need to be someone capable of doing it. Send the pieces to ARP if that's what you want to do but how about not saying the failure was DUE to something until that has been determined. If it turns out to be a bad bolt then so be it and you should talk with ARP about it or the people you purchased from.
 
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^he makes a point, from an engineering standpoint, there is no technical justification to blame any part until it is tested.



......yet rod caps do not fly off for many reasons, if the cap looks intact, there are not many other options.
 
Looks like a fatigue failure to me....dull around edges as the cracks/slip dislocations propagated until the bolt lost enough cross sectional area to fail from combined torsion/tension.

The question is.....did it fail because the cycle stresses were too high for it or because of a material defect??? I'd lean towards the latter
 
Diesel Tech said:
You seem to want to twist things around as that is NOT what I said. Yes, I said that it seems no one wants to find the cause of the problem yet you keep saying it was a rod bolt failure as the cause without doing any of the necessary work to see what happened.

If you had sent things out so they could be inspected by someone with the ability to do it the story would be different, but you have not. It doesn't have to be us (after all they are not our parts) but it does need to be someone capable of doing it. Send the pieces to ARP if that's what you want to do but how about not saying the failure was DUE to something until that has been determined. If it turns out to be a bad bolt then so be it and you should talk with ARP about it or the people you purchased from.
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I am direct quoting you, hard to twist that, however your ability to communicate clearly is not what this thread is about.

Yes I have said at the start of this thread that it was a bolt failure, and until I have evidence to support another theory that is what I am sticking with. As the evidence I have in my hands sure points in that direction. While I am not a rod designer, or an engineer, I have built over a hundred engines of all different sorts in my life time, and our engine builders shop builds 80 engines a month. We are not exactly green to this.

I have a professional associate that is an MSME, he will be taking a look at it when our schedules allow it. I will also be sending the bolt fragments to ARP, BUT and here is the reality of it all. It will be done when I get around to it, not only do I have a business to run, but we are right in the thick of our build for the upcoming season on the race truck, not to mention my other hobbies and family. To be perfectly honest it is not a current priority, the only reason I shared what I have to this point, is there have been several threads about rods recently, and to my knowledge no one has ever posted a failure of an aftermarket rod from any manufacturer. We did have a rod fail, and whether it be from: rod design, rod bolt, improper installation, or something else, the information I currently have is out there for people to draw their own conclusions from.
 
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ahale2772 said:
^he makes a point, from an engineering standpoint, there is no technical justification to blame any part until it is tested.



......yet rod caps do not fly off for many reasons, if the cap looks intact, there are not many other options.
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Rod caps and bolts need to handle the load on the rod in the exhaust stroke mainly, during the rest of the engine cycle all the load is on the beam area of the rod. With a turbocharged engine it reduced the load further due to the boost pushing the piston down. From the pictures posted that was not an issue as the rod itself is in great shape for what it's been through. Looking at the same pictures the wrist pin area is also broken and I doubt that occurred due to the rod or rod bolt. There is just way to much missing without having all the pieces to figure it out.

Too many people will jump to conclusions from only getting 1/2 of a story and I see this as the perfect example of just that. With no work spent to figure out what happen other than a guess there is no way to really know. Hell, people are already pointing at bolt size as an issue and I can guess at many things too. I just choose not to until things are tested.
 
There are a few companies out there that will build a longer rod. Ive spoken to three different ones. Monster pump mike would be my choice if I were going to a custom rod. But the carrillos are doing fine after 1.5 years.
 
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