Building a Performance Marine Engines

goatskin said:
The 466 is a sure 'possible.' The 360, not-so-much, it's a 5.9. & the only real (presumptive) advantage the DT466 has over a B Cummins is 7.3L v. 6.7L.
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The dt360 is only 5.9 liter, sure, but it's way tougher than a 5.9 cummins.
You'll be able to make the power you need with higher boost, and I think that should save you some fuel over a bigger displacement engine.

Does anyone know if piston cooling jets will still work if the oil is really cold? As in, same temperature as the water?
 
DT 360's have the same cam, rod journal, and main journal size as a DT466 only main difference is bore and stroke.
 
cumminsman315 said:
Have you thought about altering the block any to reduce weight?
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Other than the obvious: replacing cast iron covers/housings with aluminum, and getting rid of unneeded fall-offs (water pump, filters, coolers, power steering,, vacuum ...), nah.

And the pumps and filters aren't gone: just different and elsewhere rather than on the block.

Saving a 1000lbs (like LSM Alloy over a couple of B 6.7L OE blocks) is worth calculating. Saving a couple of hundred means moving batteries or water tank forward.
 
parkland said:
... Does anyone know if piston cooling jets will still work if the oil is really cold? As in, same temperature as the water?
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According to the aircraft diesel folks, no. And for what it is worth, the AmsOil marine folks said the same: 5W- or 10W-xx and good to go.
 
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pretty sure cat built something like you speak of in a 7 litre for the military. 1000ehp for over 1000 hours never over 1000* iirc. i know jason sands talked to them about it as good amount.
 
cumminsman315 said:
DT 360's have the same cam, rod journal, and main journal size as a DT466 only main difference is bore and stroke.
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A dt360 and dt466 are different engines, different blocks.
The 466 block is the one that uses different strokes to get different engine sizes like 530 and 570.
The dt360 is not much bigger and heavier than a cummins 5.9, and a lot tougher. Wet sleeve too.

The detroit diesel series 40e engines are the navistar dt466 or dt530 (7.6L or 8.7L) but with DDEC ECU's. I'm not aware of any way to get the power you want out of those. The injectors are the same technology as the 7.3 powerstroke with the HEUI fuel system. Pretty reliable, but not famous for high HP applications. 1400 lbs dry weight.

The dt360 is hundreds of lbs lighter, and uses mechanical injection. There is a kit for installing a p7100 fuel pump on the dt360's and mechanical dt466's.
DT360's are also cheap, from wreckers and parts places. You can also buy rebuild kits for about 1500$.
 
goatskin said:
According to the aircraft diesel folks, no. And for what it is worth, the AmsOil marine folks said the same: 5W- or 10W-xx and good to go.
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Cooling jets work on PSI, Cold oil produces more PSI, so yes they still work in cold temps,up to the point of restriction in comparison to orfice size. Of course depending on HOW cold your talking, but if it's THAT cold, it dont matter or not, cause the oil is not gonna flow period...
 
parkland said:
The detroit diesel series 40e engines are the navistar dt466 or dt530 (7.6L or 8.7L) but with DDEC ECU's. I'm not aware of any way to get the power you want out of those. The injectors are the same technology as the 7.3 powerstroke with the HEUI fuel system. Pretty reliable, but not famous for high HP applications. 1400 lbs dry weight.
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Start with one that came from the factory with a mechanical pump.
 
OK, I'm taking notes, but it is like putting a banquet in front of an Indian fakir - I have no idea what to do with it all.

Here's what I see (PLEASE correct me): Cummins is EASY to find hp: the engine is de-tuned and derated. Get a non-plenum head and a log intake, and either re-program the Bosch, or put a P7100 on it and you have found it's "natural" home.

That is a feature (and not a bug) of the IVECO-heritage motors, and they own the light-industrial 3000rpm market. Want more horses, from any of them: find more wind.

I-H, OTOH, is a 'real' diesel, heavy, overbuilt, low-speed, long-life ... boring ... sitting on the low-power, high-demand, 'traditional' segment, supporting I-H truck lines.

They are not obviously de-tuned/de-rated ... how do you hot one up? p&p the head, better valves, bigger cam, balance the crank and turn her up?

And if volume is a net plus in almost power application ... why would I want to look at a 6.6 when an 8.7 is the same mass & dims.

I can see the logic in the smaller, lighter, but the 1400# & 45" long of the DT466/530 is not a deal-breaker.

I don't have to have real long-life and zero maintenance; I need KNOWN life and PREDICTABLE maintenance. Of course, the best of both worlds is better ... :)

The DT 360 ... that's the school-bus diesel, yes? Interesting. Low compression, high boost, modest rpm ... how many horses, do you recon?

9724VF350 said:
Start with one that came from the factory with a mechanical pump.
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hmmm Might you know where a couple-three-five of these might be sourced?

BIGRPOWR said:
i think one will make 3000 pretty simply.
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Really? With a 2000hr life and only modestly thirsty?
I have another application in mind, also.
 
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I believe a dt466 based build, pick your displacement flavor, correct fuel and air to get the job done would do 1000 HP at 2000 hr no problem. Especially from some of the specialists like Hypermax. Only problem is telling them you only want 1000, since they can do so much more with only a little more effort. Stock components other than fuel/air can handle a LOT of HP. Head already non plenum, pick between roller or flat tappet. Only downside is weight, but putting it on a diet wouldn't be too hard. Oh and 3000 would make for a thirsty girl......
 
5.9 Cummins Fan said:
Only problem is telling them you only want 1000, since they can do so much more with only a little more effort.
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I find these statements comical. Because these big tractor shops build alot more 1000-1200hp engines than they do 2000hp+.

I dont think i would consider a dt360 over a 5.9cummins. Simply because 5.9 is like a 350 chevy. High performance parts are very easy to get and usually instock. Im guessing they would be cheaper than a dt360 aswell.
 
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9724VF350 said:
Start with one that came from the factory with a mechanical pump.
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Thats what I meant.
Thats the dt360, which are all mechanical, or dt466 up to 1994 or something close there.
Every detroit diesel dt466 rebrand I've seen was electronic, so theres no point in chasing those down.
 
kjpcummins said:
I find these statements comical. Because these big tractor shops build alot more 1000-1200hp engines than they do 2000hp+.

I dont think i would consider a dt360 over a 5.9cummins. Simply because 5.9 is like a 350 chevy. High performance parts are very easy to get and usually instock. Im guessing they would be cheaper than a dt360 aswell.
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For a truck swap, I agree. So many cummins swaps done already, that all the tricks and information take the risk out of it.
For a project like this, I see no reason why the cummins would work out better. The DT engines can actually be bought for less, and they're cheap for parts too.
Also, at 5.9 liter displacement if you use the dt360, fuel and air rates should be sort of close to a 5.9 cummins, so at least you can guess what to start with.
I don't see why you'd run a heavier 466 when a 360 will handle the power you want.
 
goatskin said:
They are not obviously de-tuned/de-rated ... how do you hot one up? p&p the head, better valves, bigger cam, balance the crank and turn her up?

And if volume is a net plus in almost power application ... why would I want to look at a 6.6 when an 8.7 is the same mass & dims.

I can see the logic in the smaller, lighter, but the 1400# & 45" long of the DT466/530 is not a deal-breaker.

I don't have to have real long-life and zero maintenance; I need KNOWN life and PREDICTABLE maintenance. Of course, the best of both worlds is better ... :)

The DT 360 ... that's the school-bus diesel, yes? Interesting. Low compression, high boost, modest rpm ... how many horses, do you recon?
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The DT series of engines are all capable of putting down thousands of HP, with the right cash dumped in.

Here is a quote from a few years ago from hypermax, for a dt466 running in the area of 1000HP:

The injection pump is $5600, with all the mounting plate and gear to go to a DT 466 front cover.
Fuel transfer package, drive off the front of our pump is $875
Head gasket is $225
Re grind your cam $550
Injectors are $2200
Injection lines are $585
Turbo $2400-$5280 depends upon the power you really want to get
The $2400 turbo will get you 850-900.
Water injection system, $2200

I'm sure some of those prices could be lower, if you shopped around.
Also, I'd look into ceramic coating the pistons on whatever you end up using, they protect the combustion chamber from high EGT's. Do the exhuast valves too.
Also saves a little fuel.
 
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