Bullet Proof Drive Line....

Also heard of breaking the stock cap bolts in the d-80's. I put studs in mine,just called up ARP and they helped me figure out what i needed.

To add to disturbeds gear settings... when seting up gears tight for pullin, shim the pinion in closer to the ring gear rather than shiming the carrier over...

2wd's put sooo much more strain on the rear end than a 4wd does so it's going to be interesting to see just how much a d-80 will hold! A good set of 37 spline axles and a spool/welded carrier and you'll about be at the limit of a d-80. With 4:63 ill bet ya break the gears!!!
 
brushpuller said:
Also heard of breaking the stock cap bolts in the d-80's. I put studs in mine,just called up ARP and they helped me figure out what i needed.

To add to disturbeds gear settings... when seting up gears tight for pullin, shim the pinion in closer to the ring gear rather than shiming the carrier over...

2wd's put sooo much more strain on the rear end than a 4wd does so it's going to be interesting to see just how much a d-80 will hold! A good set of 37 spline axles and a spool/welded carrier and you'll about be at the limit of a d-80. With 4:63 ill bet ya break the gears!!!
Click to expand...

Issue with shimming the pinion in closer to the ring gear is it puts more leverage on the pinion. Your getting it farther away from the pinion bearings.
 
they wont hold, we have a full spool, 37 spline ctm's 1550 u joint's a girdle that preloads the caps. it all helps and weve eliminated all failure except the ring and pinion. as it is now were lucky to get 8 hooks out of a set. weve tried different backlash, gear contact patterns, we run plenty of carier preload. and weve seen if we run the backlash to tight it burns the gears up and dosent give us anymore life. .006 seems to work best. weve broken 9 sets this year a mixture of 5:13 and 4:88 as well as yukon brand, dana, and some others.

the only thing i see helping is like disturbed said a ring gear support. but the 80 is just not strong enough for a good 2.8 motor. open driveline needs to be considered cuz in ky its killing the show when over half the class breaks on the same night.
 
zstroken said:
Issue with shimming the pinion in closer to the ring gear is it puts more leverage on the pinion. Your getting it farther away from the pinion bearings.
Click to expand...

Don't put the shim between the pinion and the bearing...shim behind the race, that way the bearing is still as close to the pinion as possible!
 
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gotta12v said:
they wont hold, we have a full spool, 37 spline ctm's 1550 u joint's a girdle that preloads the caps. it all helps and weve eliminated all failure except the ring and pinion. as it is now were lucky to get 8 hooks out of a set. weve tried different backlash, gear contact patterns, we run plenty of carier preload. and weve seen if we run the backlash to tight it burns the gears up and dosent give us anymore life. .006 seems to work best. weve broken 9 sets this year a mixture of 5:13 and 4:88 as well as yukon brand, dana, and some others.

the only thing i see helping is like disturbed said a ring gear support. but the 80 is just not strong enough for a good 2.8 motor. open driveline needs to be considered cuz in ky its killing the show when over half the class breaks on the same night.
Click to expand...

I can see that!!! D-80's don't have big enough gears to run low gearing! You probly only have about one and a half teeth engaged...
 
gotta12v said:
they wont hold, we have a full spool, 37 spline ctm's 1550 u joint's a girdle that preloads the caps. it all helps and weve eliminated all failure except the ring and pinion. as it is now were lucky to get 8 hooks out of a set. weve tried different backlash, gear contact patterns, we run plenty of carier preload. and weve seen if we run the backlash to tight it burns the gears up and dosent give us anymore life. .006 seems to work best. weve broken 9 sets this year a mixture of 5:13 and 4:88 as well as yukon brand, dana, and some others.

the only thing i see helping is like disturbed said a ring gear support. but the 80 is just not strong enough for a good 2.8 motor. open driveline needs to be considered cuz in ky its killing the show when over half the class breaks on the same night.
Click to expand...

Thants the biggest problem here. If I could find and Org. that is reletively close to me that will let me run open drive line, I would shove a rockwell under it and not worry about dumping any money into my D80. KOTTPA allows open driveline in the super street class but the voted that class as optional so it does me no good.

Lynn
 
we are trying to get battle of the bluegrass to go open driveline/ 3.0 like illinois itpa next year. If your intrested we could add some 2wd rules and you could run with us.

several trucks are being built now, and were going to have a rule meeting twoards the end of the season

to brush puller -we have to run the low axel gearing to run 4th in the tranny which is the only gear that will survive so were kind of out of options without changing the rules.
 
I talked to Mark from Greensburg Driveline Saturday. He has Girdled D80 rear covers in stock. Greensburg Machine Driveline, LLC...Your Full-Line Source for Driveshafts



He did the axles in my truck. No breakage sense. :rockwoot: 39 Spline Kikkel Motorsport axles and full spool from Tony Burkhard. AAM Gears, solid pinion sleeve, tubes welded to chunk. My Dad TIG welded the front carrier solid.

Another thing to consider as your power level goes up is that you stay on the low side of the T-case. Pulling in high range is really hard on trans hard parts. With a manual figure out what final ratio you want and gear the axles so you can run the trans in direct(5th in 6speeds, 4th in 5speeds).
 
Lyn just put a transfer case in it and run 4lo would save some dollars in the long run

I busted my 2nd Saturday and got the counter shaft , I'm sticking with 4lo and mayb a gear swap for next year or a 4speed transfer case
 
Rods said:
Lyn just put a transfer case in it and run 4lo would save some dollars in the long run
I have been hinting at malibu to do that

I busted my 2nd Saturday and got the counter shaft , I'm sticking with 4lo and mayb a gear swap for next year or a 4speed transfer case
Click to expand...

Busting the Trans gets old in a hurry. A sudden free rev can trash your engine. Holsein Express had that very thing happen earlier in the season. Sucks.

I wish someone made different planetary gear sets for the t-case. 2.72 low works good on tight tracks for me but is a little to much for loose tracks. 2.50 would rock IMHO for loose tracks. Have two Tcases just switch as needed. It takes about 30 mins for me to swap the tcase.
 
gotta12v said:
we are trying to get battle of the bluegrass to go open driveline/ 3.0 like illinois itpa next year. If your intrested we could add some 2wd rules and you could run with us.

several trucks are being built now, and were going to have a rule meeting twoards the end of the season

to brush puller -we have to run the low axel gearing to run 4th in the tranny which is the only gear that will survive so were kind of out of options without changing the rules.
Click to expand...

Yeah i know about the rules...that sucks!!! The rules are in place to "save money":hehe:. Ya have to spend a BUNCH of $$$ on a 1 ton rear end to almost hold up...when ya could get a rockwell or an eaton, weld the spiders and your done for under maybe 500$ Dont make much sence!!!
 
i know you have john.

thouhgt about getting a NP203 planetary set or 205 set.. plus they ahve mulitple options as well.. and still be with in the regs...

IMO how does a 4wd have MORE stress on the diff/axles then the 2wds? IMO for something to have more stress on it.. it has to be transimitting more power to what ever its driving/connected to..

example

2wd
1000fwtq x 3.1(tranny)x 3.73(diff)= 11,563tq at the axle shafts
4wd
1000fwtqx3.1(tranny) x 2.72(t-case)x 3.73(diff) =31,451.63 of tq at the axle shafts.
even 3rd (alli) is 1.41:1)
1000fwtq x 1.41 x 2.72x3.73= 14,305tq are the axles

the only thing i could see is the 2wd are hooking harder then the 4wds? meaning more of the power is beeing connected to the ground.....

wheel spinning is a loss of traction... simply put..

now how does one go about roughly caculating power loss thought loss of traction.. wheel speed vs ground speed? ie 40mph wheel spees vs 30mph ground speed? means a 25% loss of power transfer? for a 4wd unit....

were a 2wd unit is with in 10% slippage? in the few hooks i have done i have been with in 5mph between the two speeds...

if theses were good numbers...
25% loss for 4wd at 14,300tq availble would be 10,725tq is being aplied tothe ground..
10% loss for 2wd @ 11,500tq availble would be 10,350tq to the ground...


speculation????
 
malibu795 said:
i know you have john.

thouhgt about getting a NP203 planetary set or 205 set.. plus they ahve mulitple options as well.. and still be with in the regs...

IMO how does a 4wd have MORE stress on the diff/axles then the 2wds? IMO for something to have more stress on it.. it has to be transimitting more power to what ever its driving/connected to..

example

2wd
1000fwtq x 3.1(tranny)x 3.73(diff)= 11,563tq at the axle shafts
4wd
1000fwtqx3.1(tranny) x 2.72(t-case)x 3.73(diff) =31,451.63 of tq at the axle shafts.
even 3rd (alli) is 1.41:1)
1000fwtq x 1.41 x 2.72x3.73= 14,305tq are the axles

the only thing i could see is the 2wd are hooking harder then the 4wds? meaning more of the power is beeing connected to the ground.....

wheel spinning is a loss of traction... simply put..

now how does one go about roughly caculating power loss thought loss of traction.. wheel speed vs ground speed? ie 40mph wheel spees vs 30mph ground speed? means a 25% loss of power transfer? for a 4wd unit....

were a 2wd unit is with in 10% slippage? in the few hooks i have done i have been with in 5mph between the two speeds...

if theses were good numbers...
25% loss for 4wd at 14,300tq availble would be 10,725tq is being aplied tothe ground..
10% loss for 2wd @ 11,500tq availble would be 10,350tq to the ground...


speculation????
Click to expand...




Yes a 2wd hooks harder than a 4wd, all the 8,000 lb weight of the truck is on the back two tires(when a 2wheeler is set up right) A 4wd has 8,000lb spread out over 4 tires.
Also the power of a 4wd is spread out to two axles...a 2wd all the power is going to one axle!
 
malibu795 said:
i know you have john.

thouhgt about getting a NP203 planetary set or 205 set.. plus they ahve mulitple options as well.. and still be with in the regs...

IMO how does a 4wd have MORE stress on the diff/axles then the 2wds? IMO for something to have more stress on it.. it has to be transimitting more power to what ever its driving/connected to..

example

2wd
1000fwtq x 3.1(tranny)x 3.73(diff)= 11,563tq at the axle shaftsAll these numbers arefigured with you assuming you locking the converter. You can not lock the converter in 1st gear.


4wd
1000fwtqx3.1(tranny) x 2.72(t-case)x 3.73(diff) =31,451.63 of tq at the axle shafts.
even 3rd (alli) is 1.41:1)
1000fwtq x 1.41 x 2.72x3.73= 14,305tq are the axles

the only thing i could see is the 2wd are hooking harder then the 4wds? meaning more of the power is beeing connected to the ground.....

wheel spinning is a loss of traction... simply put..

now how does one go about roughly caculating power loss thought loss of traction.. wheel speed vs ground speed? ie 40mph wheel spees vs 30mph ground speed? means a 25% loss of power transfer? for a 4wd unit....

were a 2wd unit is with in 10% slippage? in the few hooks i have done i have been with in 5mph between the two speeds...

if theses were good numbers...
25% loss for 4wd at 14,300tq availble would be 10,725tq is being aplied tothe ground..
10% loss for 2wd @ 11,500tq availble would be 10,350tq to the ground...


speculation????
Click to expand...

Your would be better off to just change the tail shaft housing and trans out put so you can run a stock NP263. Less pissing around in the long run.

Your missing two big things there Adam.
1:You have no Converter lock up in 1st and your C1s are the weakest clutches in the trans. The logs you sent me so a max wheel speed of 23mph. Thrid gear low with the converter lock will give you basicly the same wheel speed as what your getting now. It should raise your RPM about 300 at the same wheel speed. Locking the converter will also make getting hooked up to a loose track easier because of the lower torque multiplication of the converter when locked. If you where able to to lock the torque converer in 1st high it would still suck because the only reduction thru gearing after the output shaft will be the rear gears. Your output will not take that. I pulled 2nd High which is a 3.30:1 ratio, very close to the 3.10:1 of your trans but I can lock it up. My output died a swift death. You ouput is no beefier. Putting a Tcase in low range behind it will greatly lower the load on the output.

2: You have no options with 1st high. You can not grab 2nd high as it is way to big. If you did you would most likely snap the output off. Adding a Tcase gives you options like running 3rd locked on tight tracks or 4th unlocked on loose tracks. Options are good.
 
gotta12v said:
they wont hold, we have a full spool, 37 spline ctm's 1550 u joint's a girdle that preloads the caps. it all helps and weve eliminated all failure except the ring and pinion. as it is now were lucky to get 8 hooks out of a set. weve tried different backlash, gear contact patterns, we run plenty of carier preload. and weve seen if we run the backlash to tight it burns the gears up and dosent give us anymore life. .006 seems to work best. weve broken 9 sets this year a mixture of 5:13 and 4:88 as well as yukon brand, dana, and some others.

the only thing i see helping is like disturbed said a ring gear support. but the 80 is just not strong enough for a good 2.8 motor. open driveline needs to be considered cuz in ky its killing the show when over half the class breaks on the same night.
Click to expand...

I run a d80 along with a bunch of 3.5 turbo trucks and have no issuse with rearends as long as they are setup right
 
brushpuller said:
Don't put the shim between the pinion and the bearing...shim behind the race, that way the bearing is still as close to the pinion as possible!
Click to expand...

I am trying to visualize this. When your saying pinion are you referring to the pinion gear? I am trying to remember the pinion shim set if there is a set of shims to put in that would shim out the large bearing race. Is that what your referring too?
 
zstroken said:
I am trying to visualize this. When your saying pinion are you referring to the pinion gear? I am trying to remember the pinion shim set if there is a set of shims to put in that would shim out the large bearing race. Is that what your referring too?
Click to expand...

Yes that is were im talkn...yes there is shims in the kit, the shims for the carrier are the same size you need to shim out the pinion bearing race...
 
JOHNBOY said:
Your would be better off to just change the tail shaft housing and trans out put so you can run a stock NP263. Less pissing around in the long run.

Your missing two big things there Adam.
1:You have no Converter lock up in 1st and your C1s are the weakest clutches in the trans. The logs you sent me so a max wheel speed of 23mph. Thrid gear low with the converter lock will give you basicly the same wheel speed as what your getting now. It should raise your RPM about 300 at the same wheel speed. Locking the converter will also make getting hooked up to a loose track easier because of the lower torque multiplication of the converter when locked. If you where able to to lock the torque converer in 1st high it would still suck because the only reduction thru gearing after the output shaft will be the rear gears. Your output will not take that. I pulled 2nd High which is a 3.30:1 ratio, very close to the 3.10:1 of your trans but I can lock it up. My output died a swift death. You ouput is no beefier. Putting a Tcase in low range behind it will greatly lower the load on the output.

2: You have no options with 1st high. You can not grab 2nd high as it is way to big. If you did you would most likely snap the output off. Adding a Tcase gives you options like running 3rd locked on tight tracks or 4th unlocked on loose tracks. Options are good.
Click to expand...

1. reguardless C1s beeing the weakes or not... they are engaged through 3rd gear... were C2 takes over in 4th gear... so i will be using C1 regaurdless of transfer case..
2. i see your point on the convertor lock up..
3. puting a t-case down stream wont reduce power input form up stream. IMO input load hasnt changed.
4. i dont know if ~450hp is capable of breaking an input or output shaft.. usually that need 700+ to do it.
5. gear ranged for various track conditions.. good point..

23mph wheel speed is 1900 turbine shaft speed to 2800rpm of engine speed. i have pulled the wheel speed down to 10mph and engine from 2700rpm... with a 1056 TC..
 
Ragged Edge said:
I run a d80 along with a bunch of 3.5 turbo trucks and have no issuse with rearends as long as they are setup right
Click to expand...

what sort of hp and torque are you making? you also seem to be single wheel wich makes a difference.

however talk to any of the top 2.8 guys weve all been fighting this all year every truck in our club i think has gotted one as well as most of the itpa guys and its not an issue of being setup wrong.
 
gotta12v said:
we are trying to get battle of the bluegrass to go open driveline/ 3.0 like illinois itpa next year. If your intrested we could add some 2wd rules and you could run with us.

several trucks are being built now, and were going to have a rule meeting twoards the end of the season

to brush puller -we have to run the low axel gearing to run 4th in the tranny which is the only gear that will survive so were kind of out of options without changing the rules.
Click to expand...

Sounds Good.... :Cheer: You have a PM.

Lynn
 
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