Can someone answer this?

Im asking you what the sizing is of your bottom charger. Am I not?
 
I don't have twins...I am asking why there is not a proper sized set of twins for the 6.0L...WHY do you have to spray a set of twins? Lack of air means too small of chargers to me...
I can spray the hell out of my single, but why? I don't want to, and it won't help towing a trailer either.
My problem is that I either have to go back to a stock turbo, and injectors, or go with twins...BUT I see people are faced with the same problem...not enough air...
So....what's the answer????:confused:
 
So figure it out. This isn't difficult. Boost is pressure in the manifold. That doesn't mean air into the cylinder. Next thing would be since this is an EGR type motor. How does the EGR system get pressurized? Its obviously easier for the exhaust to take the path of least resistance. Drive pressure in the exhaust would have to overcome boost in the manifold for the exhaust to get back in to the cylinder.

In order to get enough clean air into the cylinder. Someone with a twin setup needs to open the heads. They need to increase intake manifold plenum size. They need to get a cam that gets the exhaust out of the cylinder and keeps it seperate from the intake charge.

So you either leave dirty inert gas in the cylinder or you create a cam that makes lots of exhaust pressure to drive egr. If you are spending all that money on turbos but not altering base engine stuff its just not going to do what you need it to do.
 
PSDPlayer said:
So figure it out. This isn't difficult. Boost is pressure in the manifold. That doesn't mean air into the cylinder. Next thing would be since this is an EGR type motor. How does the EGR system get pressurized? Its obviously easier for the exhaust to take the path of least resistance. Drive pressure in the exhaust would have to overcome boost in the manifold for the exhaust to get back in to the cylinder.

In order to get enough clean air into the cylinder. Someone with a twin setup needs to open the heads. They need to increase intake manifold plenum size. They need to get a cam that gets the exhaust out of the cylinder and keeps it seperate from the intake charge.

So you either leave dirty inert gas in the cylinder or you create a cam that makes lots of exhaust pressure to drive egr. If you are spending all that money on turbos but not altering base engine stuff its just not going to do what you need it to do.
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:clap:
 
Ah and here i thought most of it was injection related(at least for driving the turbine side of the turbo). Good info Doug.
 
So I supposed the $1000 question is, has anyone spent the time and or money yet to custom grind a cam for a 6oh?

Does anyone really know how many CFM our manifolds are good for? And that's a two step question... at a vacuum, and at boost, as they will be very different numbers.

I'd suspect you'd want good flow at 0 psi as that's what is going to get the fire lit when the go command is given. Less flow = more time to spool. (should be a duh)

EGR... when is it typically commanded to open. I don't think that is during peak power, but on partial throttle and decel, at least on a gasser anyway.
 
It took me a second to realize this... there's another major obstacle in this discussion. The stock electronics. I'd be willing to bet with a stand alone fuel system / ECM and what not, you wouldn't have any problems cleaning up. With what we can do with computers these days, there should be no reason why the boost mapping of the engine can not input the data and be manipulated in such as way as to not fog out. Other than of course, if the sensors and electronics don't have sufficient range, or visibility at the right places to provide accurate enough information to the computer for it to work with.

Ford's notorious for lousy engine computers. The 5 liter mustang was a great example. They had the most effective sensors on board, and they still couldn't get the damn thing to idle in the same place twice... GM on the other hand had a much more archaic and "less robust" sensor set, but their system never burped even once. I'd suspect this is no different. In stock trim it's optimized and everyone's happy. Change one element and the whole system goes in the hopper in a hurry.

This could very well be a multilevel problem with exponential steps to salvation...
 
Plenty of tables in the computer to limit fueling based on boost. EGR is disabled in all of the tunes as far as the valve opening. There is an obvious lack of oxygen in the motor.
 
has everything todo with injection pressures, atimizing of the fuel, 225 injectors hpressure oil falls to and maintains 300psi, injection pressure falls from 24 000 to 18 000 while a cummins CR will always maintain 26 000psi, ivan you and bunting seem to be doin lots of testing for right turbo sizing so why are you asking guys who haven't tryed his turbos, ivan one second your trucks works great, next it needs this and that, then it works great, then your trying something else, **** or get off the pot
 
Redneck6.0L said:
has everything todo with injection pressures, atimizing of the fuel, 225 injectors hpressure oil falls to and maintains 300psi, injection pressure falls from 24 000 to 18 000 while a cummins CR will always maintain 26 000psi, ivan you and bunting seem to be doin lots of testing for right turbo sizing so why are you asking guys who haven't tryed his turbos, ivan one second your trucks works great, next it needs this and that, then it works great, then your trying something else, **** or get off the pot
Click to expand...

So. Nitrous makes up for the drop off in injection pressure?
 
Extended Power said:
BUT I see people are faced with the same problem...not enough air...
So....what's the answer????:confused:
Click to expand...

Pretty simple answer for me anyway. Don't buy huge injectors!!! If you want your truck to run on diesel only you don't need really big injectors. I recently found out that I'm running about the same size injectors as you in my truck with twins. Simply put....if you don't want to spray your truck. Don't buy big injectors. Upgrade your turbos first and then you can upgrade your injectors accordingly. With my truck once I get it all dialed in properly I should almost totally clear up my injectors on fuel so I will not need any spray. With most twin turbos out there now I don't think it's really a problem that the turbos aren't sized properly (well some are) but most guys go to the track also so if you add a bit more injector than what your turbos will supply you have room to spray a bit. I just think you overkilled your injectors big time. 190's would have been more than sufficient for you. Just my $.02

Tyler
 
CanadianRedneck said:
Pretty simple answer for me anyway. Don't buy huge injectors!!! If you want your truck to run on diesel only you don't need really big injectors. I recently found out that I'm running about the same size injectors as you in my truck with twins. Simply put....if you don't want to spray your truck. Don't buy big injectors. Upgrade your turbos first and then you can upgrade your injectors accordingly. With my truck once I get it all dialed in properly I should almost totally clear up my injectors on fuel so I will not need any spray. With most twin turbos out there now I don't think it's really a problem that the turbos aren't sized properly (well some are) but most guys go to the track also so if you add a bit more injector than what your turbos will supply you have room to spray a bit. I just think you overkilled your injectors big time. 190's would have been more than sufficient for you. Just my $.02

Tyler
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So the twin turbo guys went larger than they needed to on injector size and they spray it because they go to the track and may or may not have sized the turbos correctly.

Do you feel that when they ordered their injectors they forgot what size turbos they bought or did they forget what size injectors they had when they sized the turbos?
 
CanadianRedneck said:
Pretty simple answer for me anyway. Don't buy huge injectors!!! If you want your truck to run on diesel only you don't need really big injectors. I recently found out that I'm running about the same size injectors as you in my truck with twins. Simply put....if you don't want to spray your truck. Don't buy big injectors. Upgrade your turbos first and then you can upgrade your injectors accordingly. With my truck once I get it all dialed in properly I should almost totally clear up my injectors on fuel so I will not need any spray. With most twin turbos out there now I don't think it's really a problem that the turbos aren't sized properly (well some are) but most guys go to the track also so if you add a bit more injector than what your turbos will supply you have room to spray a bit. I just think you overkilled your injectors big time. 190's would have been more than sufficient for you. Just my $.02

Tyler
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Good post Tyler..I tried to tell Ivan to go 190 but he wasn't hearing me.
 
Redneck6.0L said:
has everything todo with injection pressures, atimizing of the fuel, 225 injectors hpressure oil falls to and maintains 300psi, injection pressure falls from 24 000 to 18 000 while a cummins CR will always maintain 26 000psi, ivan you and bunting seem to be doin lots of testing for right turbo sizing so why are you asking guys who haven't tryed his turbos, ivan one second your trucks works great, next it needs this and that, then it works great, then your trying something else, **** or get off the pot
Click to expand...

So 32 lpm nozzles are too big for 225cc injectors...

What makes you think Brian is asking the questions? (Or getting me to ask the questions?)

This thread is about twins, and why...ok, I'll say it...YOU have to spray your truck with not 1, not 2, but 3 stages of nitrous... (Proper sized turbo's?? I don't think so)

That's right...my truck does run good, and then it doesn't....BECAUSE I'm trying different things...trying to get it perfect for EVERYTHING.

If I never had to pull a trailer, this turbo set-up is perfect for street, strip, and highway. (Can you imagine what it would run if I did spray it???)

I would be more than willing to try a 62/70, or a 62/80...I just don't have the money for it.
Why don't you ever post videos of the trucks you put them on??? You sure talk alot about them, but we have yet to see a first morning start, or a pass time slip from one...

Back on topic-

Nitrous is a bandaid for poor air supply....so why do we have to spray a twin turbo set-up?
 
Tunning has come such a long ways. Eric from innovative has made some big steps in tunning on the 6 leaker. Injectors are being built better. Were we used to buy 275ss we are now pulling more fuel and using it better from a 225 now. Tadd has a couple trucks with his 225 runnin 11's. And Casserly has some trucks with his injectors runnin 11's. So injector sizing to turbo has changes in the last year.
 
Because the intake manifold cant supply enough air to the cylinders and the nitrous makes up for that. Thats what I get from what I have heard and read. Someone needs to make a bigger manifold with a bigger plenum to supply the air the 6.0l needs to make big power.
 
Redneck6.0L said:
Tunning has come such a long ways. Eric from innovative has made some big steps in tunning on the 6 leaker. Injectors are being built better. Were we used to buy 275ss we are now pulling more fuel and using it better from a 225 now. Tadd has a couple trucks with his 225 runnin 11's. And Casserly has some trucks with his injectors runnin 11's. So injector sizing to turbo has changes in the last year.
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But....they are spraying.......try to make 200+cc injectors work with a single turbo. I mean, daily drive it, race it, tow 10000 lbs...the whole deal.
Twins are the answer, but if a guy does twins, what sizes does he use for the chargers, and injectors without having to spray it?

I think I have the perfect size injectors for twins, and the perfect size turbo for 190cc injectors...I just have to change something again.:bang
 
Blk350on20s said:
Because the intake manifold cant supply enough air to the cylinders and the nitrous makes up for that. Thats what I get from what I have heard and read. Someone needs to make a bigger manifold with a bigger plenum to supply the air the 6.0l needs to make big power.
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Doug is working on the manifold issue..only time will tell whats its worth

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Blk350on20s said:
Because the intake manifold cant supply enough air to the cylinders and the nitrous makes up for that. Thats what I get from what I have heard and read. Someone needs to make a bigger manifold with a bigger plenum to supply the air the 6.0l needs to make big power.
Click to expand...

What good is a bigger intake when the ports, valves and cam are all restrictions?

The stock cam works good because it is stock...meaning that there is next to no overlap at all between the intake, and exhaust valve opening times.
You need more valve lift to get more flow into the cylinder, and out...or, more valve "open time".

Too bad Banks concentrates so much on the Cummins, and Duramax...it would be nice to see a twin turbo set-up from him...or an intake system like the Duramax.
 
Extended Power said:
What good is a bigger intake when the ports, valves and cam are all restrictions?

The stock cam works good because it is stock...meaning that there is next to no overlap at all between the intake, and exhaust valve opening times.
You need more valve lift to get more flow into the cylinder, and out...or, more valve "open time".

Too bad Banks concentrates so much on the Cummins, and Duramax...it would be nice to see a twin turbo set-up from him...or an intake system like the Duramax.
Click to expand...

Next to no overlap? Are you joking? Go put a stock turbo vgt duty cycle to 85% and look at the exhaust pressure. its 101kpa. 101kPa = 14.7psi. Thats atmospheric pressure. Ok so if you have the turbo clamped down but you have atmospheric pressure at idle hmm where is the ehxaust going. DUH overlap has it promoting low engine speed NOx reduction.
 
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