For anyone stalling on a new turbo for their 6.0 diesel, don't
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Extended Power
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Nicely put Tim...:Cheer:
Extended Power
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Just bite the bullet and go with twins....your half way there already anyhow.:Cheer:
strokin6L
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haha yeah that'd be nice ivan, but i'm still running the stock tranny. I still hafta bite the bullet and upgrade that soon LOL!
MMAguy
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Thanks bro. The dogs are a hobby, I like them more than most people. I hope the turbo works out. I may have just gotten lucky and gotten a stock turbo that held up for 7 years with tons of towing or maybe it held up because I kept the HP maybe 100hp over stock. Is your downpipe a 3 1/2" or 4"? I think the 4" downpipe cause the surging. I have a 3 1/2" downpipe and it doesn't surge under power, just hiccups when I let off
HOTWHEELS#$
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What causes turbo surge? Is it bad for the turbo?
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Surge is compressed air pushing back through the outlet of the compressor and out through the inlet. It is extremely bad for a charger and can trash one shortly after it happens the first time. It is extremely bad for a charger. Think of it this way, you are driving your car forward but you put your transmission into reverse. Something has to give right? Same thing with a charger.
HOTWHEELS#$
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Is there a way to prevent it?
RescueF250
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There isnt a Non-VGT honestly that out beats a VGT Turbo for driveability. Why cause I ran both turbos as a daily driver been there done that. Got the t-shirt and sold it.
StrokerDude
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What ones have you tried and what one are you running now?
strokin6L
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maybe you haven't run the right non-vgt
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From what I know about you and your combinations, you have only tried RCD’s chargers. So, to rephrase your statement, it would be RCD’s non-vgt’s won’t beat a vgt turbo for driveability. We do agree that there are some issues depending on what the individual is looking for. That is why we are casting a new housing. There are issues with VGT turbos as well.
For the record, we have stuff now that is better than any VGT we have seen. The issue is that it costs a lot more, but they are purpose built experimental units. They require a big 50mm external gate but they are in service and they do work.
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It is a design flaw and a characteristic of VGT’s with larger compressor wheels. That is why we only recommend people upgrade to a VGT that has a 62mm wheel. There are people who can tune some of it out, but it will still be there.
Don’t get me wrong, you can have the same thing with a NON-VGT. None of ours do and most available (from any current manufacture) have surge issues.
outlaw6oh
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really well I've got 3 turbos that are junk and one on the way out, which is the one currently in the truck and in that video that surges like a mofo. Not only that but a stock vgt can't keep up with larger injectors just isn't gonna happen. Are non vgt's perfect? nope but I'll take the lesser of two evils here and a little more reliability any day.
RescueF250
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Really I really doubt that dude yeah my post count sucks here only reason I came here is because to post about Vivian now back to the topic on hand. 3 turbos are you serious what are you doing ? hard to believe you going thru 3 turbos, I had a stock 03 VGT for 2 yrs on 190cc injectors and did just find NEVER had a problem. Never said non vgt's are perfect, yes I ran RCD's 64mm Tuning was a nightmare for me. I had a dead zone between 45 to 55 which was right when it shifted into overdrive lost all boost and smoked the entire road.
Maybe your housing difference could be a difference but still how much tuning nightmare is gonna be into it ? Who is gonna be able to tune it ? So are you saying there is no dead zone? no lost of boost ? Not knocking but how long has it been trying to figure out the housing sizes ? when it came to tuning we held the gears longer to keep the rpm higher, I even switched gears in my truck to 4.30 cause I'd gain a little rpm out of it and still it drove me nuts. Yeah maybe there 64mm is different but it left a bad taste in my my mouth I also know of another that feels the same way about non-vgt's he was trying to tow and had nothing but problems and also lives in the mountains.
64mm RCD is what I had, after that was a VGT-SS, now stock - going a completely different route here shortly trying something different as I always do.
Everyone can talk any turbo up they want. What ever vendor, whatever turbo maker etc etc. The facts need to be proven and driven on the road. I dont listen to anyone I always try things and discuss it with ppl who have been there, and have proven trucks out there. Theres alot of folks I know that went back to a VGT cause they didnt like there Non VGT after everyone talked it up. Things dont work out oh well. But like I said unless things are proven on the street and alot of folks running it I had bad luck with it. Guess we'll just see how this talk about housing size actually is. Like I said not busting your balls but if they are out and all where are these ppl that are running it ?
Its just like my post about cams, etc etc Do you really need it, all the hype about all these parts but if you look really into the trucks making the power out there arent running parts like that. Goes back to what is proven that is what I go by not word of mouth.
outlaw6oh
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well you've seen the surge of my current turbo, that one is making an odd humming noise and freezes at zero boost and needs to be shut off to reset it.
fairly obvious here
And two with bearing failure, my oil is changed at a max of 5000mi usually closer to 3000mi and I run synthetic oil.
What do I do wrong? couldn't tell ya personally just haven't had one be reliable for me.
So how was running 190s on a stock turbo for you? smokey and high egt's didn't bother you?
fairly obvious here
And two with bearing failure, my oil is changed at a max of 5000mi usually closer to 3000mi and I run synthetic oil.
What do I do wrong? couldn't tell ya personally just haven't had one be reliable for me.
So how was running 190s on a stock turbo for you? smokey and high egt's didn't bother you?
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I have numerous customers who have gone through countless modified VGT’s. Why do you find it hard that Outlaw has gone through 3? I have one customer who is on number 5 and cannot seem to get his money back from the supplier.
As far as the RCD, they aren’t here to defend themselves so no point going into great detail as to what is wrong with what they offer. Buyers should beware of anyone who sells a turbo that say “with special tuning x is possible.” That is a sign that there is a problem and if you don’t know how to hide it, it will bite you in the butt.
I have seen you on other boards and I know you have been around. Post count here doesn’t mean anything. I’m sure on PSN you are well into the thousands. I find it very discouraging that you are so dead set against non-VGT’s because you and one friend had one bad experience. The 64mm you had, had a .76 A/R tubine housing on it. We don’t use anything larger than a .70 for daily driving and the new housings are even tighter than that. A .76 a/r works fine up top, but it takes longer to spool. So, you will find that at certain rpm’s you don’t have any boost. With your combination, you probably didn’t start building boost until 1800 rpms or so. That doesn’t work for a daily driver. Changing your gears, doesn’t change where the boost comes on, so it won’t make any difference. It only addresses the speed at which you are at that rpm. In order for more boost lower in the rpm range, you need a tighter housing, different housing material, different turbine wheel or different compressor cover (assuming you wanted to stay with a 64mm).
The other option would have been to switch to a smaller compressor wheel that will build boost quicker. Looking at the two aftermarket chargers you have tried, both would be considered a fairly good upgrade over the factory charger (56mm if I remember correctly). Why did you choose a 64mm and not something else?
I find it a little odd that your SS worked so good but you went back down to stock. Why is that?
As far as a VGT, you should really look at your boost and back pressures together. I think you will be enlightened as to how bad their relationship is. We have seen back pressures 4.97 times higher than boost at certain boost levels. Do you think that is good? Do you even monitor back pressure? We recommend back pressure be no more than 1.3 times boost pressure for a daily driver and as close to 1 to 1 as possible for competition vehicles.
Please don’t get me wrong, I get where you are coming from. We put our trucks in as many different situations as possible to test what our customers go through. So, I’m well aware of the no boost, high egt’s, slowing down in traffic, truck starting to smoke, what do I do, step on it and smoke people out to get the truck to down shift or slow down another 10 mph and let the truck down shift on its on, situations that can exist.
The testing we do has really pointed out some issues with some of the available products out there. Which lead us to casting a new housing and so on and so forth. So, I do understand where you are coming from and I’m not just arguing with you that they don’t exist. I just wish that you would step back and realize that your bad experiences are with a manufacture that has had numerous threads posted on a variety of forums complaining about their chargers. In addition to that, they use something no-one else in the aftermarket uses, but we all have access to it. Why do you think that we (all aftermarket manufactures) opted to go a different route?
As far as our new housings are concerned, we have asked everyone who is running a prototype to not talk about it. Their prototypes may and most likely will act differently than the production units and we don’t want misinformation out there. The first actual production units will be poured here shortly and at that point in time, information about spool up, horsepower, boost, back pressure, material, features, etc will be released. Please understand that we are trying to do the right thing by only releasing information that is factual.
Over the past couple of years, we have testing a variety of different combinations that have had different results. Some have failed miserable, some have been very successful.
Here are two photos of extremely tight a/r’s. Notice that both use an external wastegate. These two units have the same inlets and outlets as the factory charger even with the external wastegate. This is a very small example of the out of the box thinking that we do. We are not aware of a single company that has built or sold a single turbo with an external gate; let alone that dumped back into the exhaust before the down pipe. These take about 38 hours of fabrication to make.
Here is a photo of one of our high flow compressor covers. How many manufactures are testing different covers that you know of? Any of them offer them currently? We do and I’m sure others will pick up on our successes and start offering them shortly. This is actually a unit that I would put on your truck.
I have said it before and I will say it again. When a customer is buying a charger, especially in the 6.0 market, they are solely relying on the knowledge and experience of the person/company they are buying it from. If they don’t know what they are doing or don’t understand what you need, you will end up with a bad charger, which will make your truck useless. The buyer needs to call around and talk to different people. Don’t buy the “deal” because if may be what they have on the shelf and may not be what you need. I would recommend people start looking a month before they need a charger. Most shops don’t stock a lot of chargers and some manufactures carry a limited inventory. So, get what you need and be willing to wait for those parts to come in. The charger plays one of the biggest roles in how the truck acts and performs. Bad charger, bad truck, great charger, great truck.