Ford F450 in 2.6 class

[White Duramax]

How can a F450 be a 1 ton or less truck? Why would Ford build a F350 and a F450 if they were the same truck, just different badges? Come on.

 

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot, you're a quarter inch away from writing a rule that says "acceptable rear ends: Dana 80 and AAM 11.5".

The sad part is maybe we have to. The folks running the 450 already knew enough not to use the axles that came with it, why not use the same reasoning elsewhere.

More to the point, maybe we don't need a list of engines, axles, t-cases, frames, etc are acceptable, but rather DEFINE what "1 ton" means.

Most have gone under the understanding that 3500, K30/35, F350, etc. dictated 1 ton, but now we have those that believe (at least some) F450's fall into that too. It might be time for the "National Powers that be" to define 1 ton. If not it just becomes another "vaque turbo rule" so to speak..... Another area for people to find and crawl into the cracks.

I believe the sport needs it defined. From my posts, you can probably figure out my viewpoint on the subject, but I am just one voice. It's time the big dog organizers "earn their money" (not that they make any), and define it before it goes any furthur (and it will) for the betterment of pulling in general (one less thing for people to fight about).

 

[nwpadmax]

No chit it needs defined, because "one ton" is a retarded half-description that virtually pointless. What "one ton" or "3 truck" made today can only haul a ton? None of 'em. All can haul way more. It's called a "one ton" because your pappy back in the 50s called it that.

So when I see 2 trucks with different badges sporting the same GVWR, there is no logic to the "Can't run that 4 truck, but you go ahead with the 3 truck with the same rating." That's being rather simpleminded (just like a lot of other rules we have today).

Consider this, let's say one of the big 3 puts a Dana 110 in a "3 truck," then all of a sudden, it's legal, and all the D80 and AAM guys will cry all the same about "they have bigger rearends than we do"....

Or, you outlaw those trucks. That's just dandy.

This sport is getting choked by mindless rules and this 450 thing is just another prime example. One of my other favorite senseless rules is Scheid's "OEM fuel tank required" for purpose-built-never-streeted dedicated 2.6 pulling trucks that they build.

 

[Leadfoot]

I agree there are rules that make absolutely no sense (ie. OEM full tank in a "now" purpose built class), or turbo rules that make vendors rich.

The problem is rules are needed.

As your sig states "Good change, or NO change!" The problem is we've had Good change in the sport (increased demographics, higher payouts, more attendance at events), but we've also had some Bad change that we are currently seeing (somewhat due to the increased demographics). The sport has changed with the diesel revolution and also from this great tool called the interwebby. VAGUE rules worked years ago as there was an understanding and sometimes a "gentleman's agreement" if you will about what is/was acceptable. The problem is those days are gone and will NEVER return. EVERYTHING has to be spelled out in black and white with every t crossed and i dotted or somebody going to TRY AND FIND a way around it. If it was threads like this would be fewer and far between....

For the ONE point in this thread: 1 ton needs to be defined. If someone wants to put a GVWR limit as a definition, then so be it (although I don't think that would be the best solution as that changes as time goes on and with current rating for different vehicles creates controversy), or even a combination of "criteria" that define it. I'm not saying the "3" should be the one and only deciding factor, but it was easy to define and well accepted for years....

Edit: Consider this, let's say one of the big 3 puts a Dana 110 in a "3 truck," then all of a sudden, it's legal, and all the D80 and AAM guys will cry all the same about "they have bigger rearends than we do"....

What's the difference now, a D80, AAM, and Sterling axle are not all equal but they are sized and classed relatively the same. If an axle comes out that completely changes the game, then it will have to be discussed. If I'm not mistaken the number of lugs and brake size of the 450 axles were different than that of the previously accepted traditional 1 ton axles...

Either that or we say Fuk it and run whatever you can get down to weight......it has to end somewhere.

 

[Blackdog]

I say if a 450 can make weight than let it pull. I think all this discussion about axle size is pointless. It isn't the axle that is going to make the truck take first place at a pull. It is just a stronger axle. It could break as easily as any other axle or it could last longer. Whining because for say you got beat by an f-450 because it has a bigger axle isn't any different than a guy whining because he still runs a d70 and he got beat by a guy with a d80. If he got beat by a guy with a d80 but his d70 axle didn't break than how did that d80 become the deciding factor.

Gears, Tuning, Driving style, Luck etc... That is the deciding factor in who comes in first and who whines. My .02

 

[zstroken]

I say if a 450 can make weight than let it pull. I think all this discussion about axle size is pointless. It isn't the axle that is going to make the truck take first place at a pull. It is just a stronger axle. It could break as easily as any other axle or it could last longer. Whining because for say you got beat by an f-450 because it has a bigger axle isn't any different than a guy whining because he still runs a d70 and he got beat by a guy with a d80. If he got beat by a guy with a d80 but his d70 axle didn't break than how did that d80 become the deciding factor.

Gears, Tuning, Driving style, Luck etc... That is the deciding factor in who comes in first and who whines. My .02

When a guy spends $2500 to make his d80 stay together, and then you say hey you can run a 1.25 ton truck, yea that is a big difference.

 

[Blackdog]

When a guy spends $2500 to make his d80 stay together, and then you say hey you can run a 1.25 ton truck, yea that is a big difference.

The guy with $2500 in his d80 probably didn't start off with a truck that cost over 40k either so he could afford to put his money where it matters. It still doesn't mean the bigger axle is going to make that truck a winner.

If a f-450 was allowed in and the change was made would alot of guys ditch there d70,d80,AAM, Sterling axles for the bigger 110 or not? Me personally, I haven't got alot of money in my d80 and have been lucky. I could also pick up a 110 fairly cheap from just down the road. I would swap.

 

[zstroken]

The guy with $2500 in his d80 probably didn't start off with a truck that cost over 40k either so he could afford to put his money where it matters. It still doesn't mean the bigger axle is going to make that truck a winner.

If a f-450 was allowed in and the change was made would alot of guys ditch there d70,d80,AAM, Sterling axles for the bigger 110 or not? Me personally, I haven't got alot of money in my d80 and have been lucky. I could also pick up a 110 fairly cheap from just down the road. I would swap.

How do you know the guy with the D80 or the 11.5 doesn't have $40K? I saw a 2011 dodge 3500 the other day for $55K.

Sad part is a stock D80 on a good track at 800+ hp probably won't last more than 10 hooks. I have seen some of them break at 600HP. It isn't truck setup that breaks them either(well I guess you could put some 215/85/16 on them and they would live)

I don't have an issue with a 450 frame pulling, but it needs to have a driveline/motor combination that was available in a 350 or smaller.

 

[Rattlin_Ram]

Hell with the 450's, why not let the 550's and even 650's pull????

 

[Blackdog]

How do you know the guy with the D80 or the 11.5 doesn't have $40K? I saw a 2011 dodge 3500 the other day for $55K.

Sad part is a stock D80 on a good track at 800+ hp probably won't last more than 10 hooks. I have seen some of them break at 600HP. It isn't truck setup that breaks them either(well I guess you could put some 215/85/16 on them and they would live)

I don't have an issue with a 450 frame pulling, but it needs to have a driveline/motor combination that was available in a 350 or smaller.

I am just saying that at some point the sport has to move forward with the times as the trucks get newer or it will be antique diesel truck pulling. I don't have a problem with an f-450 pulling in the same class as I do regardless of anything. If I was to get beat by a 450 due to distance than so be it. It isn't because his driveline is stronger than mine.

 

[zstroken]

I am just saying that at some point the sport has to move forward with the times as the trucks get newer or it will be antique diesel truck pulling. I don't have a problem with an f-450 pulling in the same class as I do regardless of anything. If I was to get beat by a 450 due to distance than so be it. It isn't because his driveline is stronger than mine.

Come back and say that when your trying to put 1000HP+ through an OEM driveline.

Let the f-450 hook in workstock, but not in a class where you have to build the truck.

 

[Chris Tobin]

From reading this entire thread it seems to me that Tad, the original poster, is trying to get the F450s legal so that he can use a F450 rear axle in his truck, not so that he can pull with an F450... That seems to me like he is trying to cheat, or exploit a gray area... but hey it's just my opinion, but thats what I'm seeing...

Ford presented the F450 as larger than a 1-ton when they launched the new ones on '08, but I wasnt at the launch for the 6.7L trucks so they may have backed down on that but I doubt it.

Does someone have an F450 that can show what it is registered as? I would conside them a 1.25 or 1.5-ton truck!

 

[Blackdog]

Come back and say that when your trying to put 1000HP+ through an OEM driveline.

Let the f-450 hook in workstock, but not in a class where you have to build the truck.

I won't ever be putting down 1000+hp period for workstock or 2.6 which is what I run. I'm more involved in tractor pulling anyway but if someone wants to put money into a 40k+ 450 to pull 2.6 than I say go ahead. Does not make a hill of beans difference to me.

 

[DISTURBED]

Did some searching.
Tenth generation (1997–2003)
Tenth generation

Related Lincoln Blackwood
In February 1997, Ford sold off its class 8 heavy truck ("AeroMax" & "Louisville") operations to Freightliner LLC which were renamed Sterling (from an early White Motors brand). This was so that Ford could dedicate its Kentucky Truck Assembly facility to a more profitable light truck production of the upcoming all new F-250 to F-550 Super Duty series. Ford re-entered the class 6 and 7 medium-heavy duty truck market in 1999 with the introduction of the F-650 & F-750 Super Duty built at the Blue Diamond Truck Company plant in Escobedo, Mexico (which is a 50/50 joint venture of Ford and Navistar). The F-150 was then assembled at 3 locations; the Kansas City Assembly in Claycomo, Missouri, at Norfolk Assembly in Norfolk, Virginia and at the Dearborn Truck plant (which is a part of the large River Rouge Plant complex) in Dearborn, Michigan.

Ford took the aero styling to its conclusion for 1997 with an extremely round nose on the new F-series. The regular F-250 (light duty) was basically an F-150 with the same body panels but with heavy duty axles and suspension, along with odd 7 lug wheels. The F-250 HD (Heavy Duty) was considered in the same series as the F-350. With the arrival of the all new "Super Duty" series in early 1998, but labeled the 1999 model, the standard F-250 ('light duty'), F-250HD (Heavy Duty), & F-350 line was totally dropped and the F-250 (light duty) was offered as the "7700" package for the F-150 (noted on the tailgate emblem). A wide variety of body options were available: regular cab and SuperCab, standard or flareside boxes, and short and long beds. A new Lightning was introduced in 1999, and Harley-Davidson and King Ranch versions were also created. In 2001 the SuperCrew cab was introduced.

Sales of the F-150 surged in the tenth generation to 750,000 to over 900,000 in 2001 as the General Motors and Dodge products lagged. Ford's sales dropped, however, for the final years of this generation as the redesigned Dodge trucks were released.

The new F-150 was Motor Trend magazine's Truck of the Year for 1997 [7]. 1997 also marked the introduction of Ford's modular Single Overhead cam (SOHC) engines into the F-150. The grille was updated in 1999 and the SuperCrew was added to the lineup in 2001. Ford manufactured a limited run of "Heritage Edition" F-150s of this body style in 2004 (as 2004 model years) to finish out production.

Ford has found that the cruise control system in many of their trucks could catch fire, because the switch system could corrode over time, overheat and ignite. Ignition was later blamed on spillage from the adjacent master cylinder. On March 5, 2007 Ford recalled 155,000 2003 full-size pickups and full-size SUVs for the defective part. During the previous two years Ford had recalled 5.8 million vehicles in because of the defective cruise control systems in trucks, SUVs and vans. That recall, one of the largest in history, covered vehicles from the 1994-2002 model years. [8]

The models are:

F-150: 1/2 ton (6,600 GVWR max)
F-250: 1999 3/4 ton (7,700 GVWR max)
F-250 Super Duty: 3/4 ton
F-350 Super Duty: 1 ton (11,200 GVWR max)
F-450 Super Duty: 1 1/4 ton chassis-cab only
F-550 Super Duty: 1 1/2 ton chassis-cab only (19,000 GVWR max)
F-650 Super Duty: oversized commercial truck cab (26,000 GVWR max)
F-750 Super Duty: oversized commercial truck cab (33,000 GVWR max)
Engines:

1997-2003 - 4.2 L (256 CID) Essex V6, 202 hp (151 kW)/252 ft·lbf
1997-1998 - 4.6 L (281 CID) Triton V8, 220 hp (164 kW)/280 ft·lbf
1999-2003 - 4.6 L (281 CID) Triton V8, 231 hp (172 kW)/293 ft·lbf
1995-1998 - 5.4 L (330 CID) Triton V8, 235 hp (175 kW)/330 ft·lbf
1999-2003 - 5.4 L (330 CID) Triton V8, 260 hp (194 kW)/350 ft·lbf
1999-2000 - 5.4 L (330 CID) supercharged Triton V8, 360 hp (99-00 Lightning)
2001-2004 - 5.4 L (330 CID) supercharged Triton V8, 380 hp (01-04 Lightning)
1999-2004 - 5.4 L (330 CID) supercharged Triton V8, 340 hp (02-03 Harley-Davidson)
1999 - 6.8 L (415 CID) Triton V10, 275 hp (205 kW)/410 ft·lbf (Super Duty only)
2000-2003 - 6.8 L (415 CID) Triton V10, 310 hp (231 kW)/425 ft·lbf (Super Duty only)
1999-2003 - 7.3 L Power Stroke turbo-Diesel V8, 250 hp (186 kW)/525 ft·lbf (Super Duty only)
2003-2004 - 6.0 L (363 CID) Power Stroke turbo-Diesel V8, 325 hp (242 kW)/560 ft·lbf (Super Duty only)

 

[zstroken]

I won't ever be putting down 1000+hp period for workstock or 2.6 which is what I run. I'm more involved in tractor pulling anyway but if someone wants to put money into a 40k+ 450 to pull 2.6 than I say go ahead. Does not make a hill of beans difference to me.

If you don't have a competitive truck and really don't pull trucks, then why do you say the 450 should be allowed? Would be kind of like me saying that they should allow rule changes in your tractor pulling class right?

 

[RSieck]

There isn't or won't ever be a true F450 being competitive in a 2.6 or workstock class, so who gives a hoot if they pull or not...

Why would anybody start out with a 8500lb truck stock, and try to build it into a dedicated puller for a 8000lb class, just to get a potentially better rear axle??

 

[DISTURBED]

Then why not allow the small rockwells and eatons if it doesnt make any difference. They came in some of the medium duty trucks back in the 60's and70's. Rules are rules, if they allow the dana 110 then whats next. He even said he wasnt going to run the F450 truck just wants to use the axle

 

[zstroken]

One thing that I see is the D110 if I remember correctly still had a 1.5" axle.

 

[PTPULLINCHASSIS]

Like said its peoples opinion not a proven fact it isn't legal. By all the paper work I have read it makes it legal.

Sorry guys but the s110 is NOT available in a 1 ton or less chassis. I don't care how you try to spin it gvw or badges on the truck it's plain and simple they are not going to pass tech. End of story!!!

The Dana/Spicer Model S110 is an automotive axle manufactured by the Dana Corp. and the Eaton Corporation. Eaton manufacturers the carrier and Dana manufacturers the rest of the axle. The S110 model follows a newer nomenclature for Dana axles. The "S" meaning: single rear axle. The first "1" representing gear reduction type, the second representing the head assembly series and the last "0" representing the design level.

The Dana S110 is used in Class 4 and Class 5 applications. Dodge, Ford and General Motors use this axle as well as various other companies. The Dana S110 is a full floating, drop-out axle. Dana S110 axles are a step up in overall strength compared to the Dana 80. Ford started using this axle in 2005 model F-450 and F-550 trucks, while Dodge started using the Dana S110 in their 2008 model 4500 and 5500 trucks. Although this axle is designed for medium-duty, commercial-trucks, Ford does put the S110 in F-450 Pick up trucks. The Dana S110 has a gross weight rating up to 14,500 lbs but is frequently, de-rated by vehicle manufacturer for safety and tire reasons. This axle is not yet used in 1 Ton trucks (Class 3).

 

[nwpadmax]

Wikipedia? LMFAO!!!

LOL Really Fellas!!!