Heavy Smoke on the Drag Strip

hummin cummins said:
So is someone going to do a cash for smokers deal! Or do several of us just scrap hundreds of thousands of dollars, or do you expect mechanical pumped racers to de-tune and slow down. Or we could always run bigger chargers and run clean and go even faster. That would be even more dangerous having a 5 or 6k lb truck in the low 8,s.

Why don't we all just run alcohol?
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Not at all , my idea is clean most that fuel and run even faster and make it tolerable for the people that could give us greif :rockwoot: a decent haze would be no problem to most .

SHughes said:
As much as the individual can control it and still make power, yes, I agree. I agree , just making a concious effort would go along ways . I know it can be done i have seen alot of 12v's clean up and run really fast but it does take more effort and often more money spent on turbo's or nitrous or both , and this is true for any diesel i dont care what brand .



Not controled by the track or any organization.
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The idea is if we act early then we are the ones with the choice and not the people we fear getting involved .



The only reason i am posting in this thread is I am investing alot of money to make a perfectly good truck a competition only vehicle and want to see this sport around for alot of years to come .
 
JoshH said:
To those who say the only way smoke can drift into your lane is if you are going too slow, have you ever heard of bracket racing? I have seen 17 second trucks cover the track in smoke. Usually it's 12v 5 speeds with the pumps turned way up and stock turbos. Say a 13 second truck lines up next to it. If the weather conditions aren't just right, the 13 second truck's lane could easily be obscured by smoke. Also, at a race a year or so ago, there was a common rail Cummins there that was having some problems getting his turbos lit and was covering the track in smoke for about the first 300'-1/8 mile. The track officials actually told him he couldn't line back up until he went down to the empty lower pit area and showed them he could spool it up without excessive smoke.
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And those idiots shouldnt be on the track imho. (however with some enlightening they would see running faster is not always about who has the most fuel.

My truck is turned up stock turbo stock clutch and high 15's and I only haze at wot.
 
This is a good thread!!

Having a trail of thick black smoke at the end of your run isn't needed. If ya gotta dump so much fuel in that it is like that then change your charger program or run nitrous. We all have trans and motor issues and we end up billowing out the smoke from time to time but we don't need a healthy running truck layin a blanket of smoke. I give the Banks team credit for addressing this issue a few years ago and be successful. Who cares how cool a truck smoking looks to the spectators. It isn't sending the best message. I have long since seen it pointless to waste that much fuel. It's common sense to think if that is unburnt fuel maybe I should get some more oxygen in there.
 
Hmmm... 550cc of fuel and I see 1500F EGT with lots of smoke. 430cc of fuel and I see 1750F EGT but less smoke. Which one do you think I'll pick as they run the same ET?
 
Mine runs way better and cooler with more fuel.And its dyno proven if that counts.
 
Kind said:
This is a good thread!!

I give the Banks team credit for addressing this issue a few years ago and be successful. Who cares how cool a truck smoking looks to the spectators. It isn't sending the best message. I have long since seen it pointless to waste that much fuel. It's common sense to think if that is unburnt fuel maybe I should get some more oxygen in there.
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Everybody doesnt have the money or time to burn up a motor every pass like banks does$.02
 
Kind said:
This is a good thread!!

Having a trail of thick black smoke at the end of your run isn't needed. If ya gotta dump so much fuel in that it is like that then change your charger program or run nitrous. We all have trans and motor issues and we end up billowing out the smoke from time to time but we don't need a healthy running truck layin a blanket of smoke. I give the Banks team credit for addressing this issue a few years ago and be successful. Who cares how cool a truck smoking looks to the spectators. It isn't sending the best message. I have long since seen it pointless to waste that much fuel. It's common sense to think if that is unburnt fuel maybe I should get some more oxygen in there.
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How can you say what is or isn't needed to make the kind of power the top classes are making when your smokeless example truck only produces 30 to 40% of that power?
 
Charles said:
How can you say what is or isn't needed to make the kind of power the top classes are making when your smokeless example truck only produces 30 to 40% of that power?
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Do you always have to have direct experience with something to know about it?

You seem to appear as a political expert amoung our group, but I don't see you running for any high ranking, or even city console (that I noticed In you ramblings) government position.
 
JasonCzerak said:
Do you always have to have direct experience with something to know about it?

You seem to appear as a political expert amoung our group, but I don't see you running for any high ranking, or even city console (that I noticed In you ramblings) government position.
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I never said you did. You just can't say what isn't needed to accomplish ____ based on your experience at accomplishing 1/3 ____.

If you will reread Kind's post you will see that he was making direct statements about necessities and also suggested solutions for trucks that are currently smoking.

My point is that you can't very well tell someone that what they are doing is unnecessary to accomplish what they are accomplishing if you've never done it yourself, nor seen anyone ELSE pull it off in the way you describe.

That's just simple logic.
 
JasonCzerak said:
Do you always have to have direct experience with something to know about it?

You seem to appear as a political expert amoung our group, but I don't see you running for any high ranking, or even city console (that I noticed In you ramblings) government position.
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Charles said:
I never said you did. You just can't say what isn't needed to accomplish ____ based on your experience at accomplishing 1/3 ____.

If you will reread Kind's post you will see that he was making direct statements about necessities and also suggested solutions for trucks that are currently smoking.

My point is that you can't very well tell someone that what they are doing is unnecessary to accomplish what they are accomplishing if you've never done it yourself, nor seen anyone ELSE pull it off in the way you describe.

That's just simple logic.
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Anybody else smell a deathmatch???? :woohoo:
 
Timbeaux38 said:
Anybody else smell a deathmatch???? :woohoo:
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I sure hope not. I'm not trying to be "Political", I was just pointing out the fact that until we have 2000+hp smoke free light diesels running around, nobody is going to be telling anybody else what it takes to do it. And until then, nobody's going to turn down a truck built for all out competition.

Besides that, can in-cylinder temperatures be controlled at those levels when running that lean? And lastly, is there no valor left to make power on fuel, no spray?

(shrug)
 
Charles said:
I never said you did. You just can't say what isn't needed to accomplish ____ based on your experience at accomplishing 1/3 ____.

If you will reread Kind's post you will see that he was making direct statements about necessities and also suggested solutions for trucks that are currently smoking.

My point is that you can't very well tell someone that what they are doing is unnecessary to accomplish what they are accomplishing if you've never done it yourself, nor seen anyone ELSE pull it off in the way you describe.

That's just simple logic.
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He's right up until 17xmph and and low 7's based on observations of the banks vehicles. Wrong when you approach the 6's currently. He's basing this on the most current technology diesel performance has to offer. I think the Audi R10 is a good example as well. Now to make a p-pump do that vs a CR, vs a HEUI, vs Hamster.... you have a debate if smoke is good for the public, motor, environment.



Side topic, but smoke related: I think the EPA has no business at a drag race, If they crack down on diesel's, I think it would be logical they put catalytic converters on top fuel and have all the "jet powered school buses" dismantled. That's not going to happen, so get that idea the EPA is going to do anything on private property to limit diesel performance due to smoke is retarded.
 
Charles said:
How can you say what is or isn't needed to make the kind of power the top classes are making when your smokeless example truck only produces 30 to 40% of that power?
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How much power do you think the top classes are making. Ryan's truck dynoed 800hp and ran well over 120 mph in the 1/4. according to your math the top classes make 2400hp. not sure why the dig. you are free to disagree.
 
Charles said:
I sure hope not. I'm not trying to be "Political", I was just pointing out the fact that until we have 2000+hp smoke free light diesels running around, nobody is going to be telling anybody else what it takes to do it. And until then, nobody's going to turn down a truck built for all out competition.

Besides that, can in-cylinder temperatures be controlled at those levels when running that lean? And lastly, is there no valor left to make power on fuel, no spray?

(shrug)
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I'm pointing out that the technology is coming to run smokeless at 2000hp. What's needed to run make another 500hp in a dmax smokeless? Could it be 100,000psi fuel rail systems? I dunno, just guessing, but it needs to be developed.

Valor to make power on fuel? the first "hot rod" I highly doubt was run on Nitro, but the sport evolved to it.... :)
 
rush said:
How much power do you think the top classes are making. Ryan's truck dynoed 800hp and ran well over 120 mph in the 1/4. according to your math the top classes make 2400hp. not sure why the dig. you are free to disagree.
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There are several engines that have dynoed over 2 bills.
 
As has been said many times, "there is a time and place for everything". I don't have any problems with the trucks that make a lot of smoke, as long as they don't effect, my lights or mine or my girl friends safety. There is no doubt that in the part of the country that I live in, making smoke is pretty popular with the crowds.

In the NHRA classes that I run in, smoke is not tolerated. This may only be in division 6 and 7, as that is the only two divisions that I run in. The two classes that I run in are the Pro E.T. class and Super Street. Though I have run in Super Pro a few times as well. None of these classes are all out classes. The Pro E.T. and Super Pro are classes are both bracket classes, and Super Street runs on a 10.90 index. Could I run faster by making more smoke? I don't know, and it doesn't matter to me. Don M has injectors that run clean at the E.T. that I want to run at.

Once again, I'm not against smoke, it's just that with the type of racing I like to do, it's not tolerated.

Paul
 
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