Heavy Smoke on the Drag Strip

We definitely don't need to bring any unwanted attention to this topic. It will just hurt our small addiction filled sport. I feel the current trucks are burning cleaner than years past, and will continue to do so on their own. There's really no reason for even an 11 second 12 valve street truck to smoke excessively. These days, even a mid 11 second diesel only daily driver 12 valve can run a basicly smoke free pass and pull heavy loads. Again, it's all in the combination, and people are learning more and more every day. With our forum, a prooven combination for a killer low smoke 12 valve is just a question away. For competition vehicles running maybe 10's or quicker, I feel it should be a run whatcha brung type of thing. The race vehicles put on a show that most enjoy.
 
Good thing I didn't say Cleveland steamer instead of large huh? LOL
 
syrupdawg said:
Everybody doesnt have the money or time to burn up a motor every pass like banks does$.02
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I agree the large majority of us cannot afford to operate like them, but we can learn from their mistakes. As do they.

Charles said:
How can you say what is or isn't needed to make the kind of power the top classes are making when your smokeless example truck only produces 30 to 40% of that power?
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Yes but a few years ago a 10 second truck was layin out a blanket of smoke, now we have these common rails doin a very good job at keeping it to a minimum. And people are more aware how to create a effecient motor.

JasonCzerak said:
He's right up until 17xmph and and low 7's based on observations of the banks vehicles. Wrong when you approach the 6's currently. He's basing this on the most current technology diesel performance has to offer. I think the Audi R10 is a good example as well. Now to make a p-pump do that vs a CR, vs a HEUI, vs Hamster.... you have a debate if smoke is good for the public, motor, environment.



Side topic, but smoke related: I think the EPA has no business at a drag race, If they crack down on diesel's, I think it would be logical they put catalytic converters on top fuel and have all the "jet powered school buses" dismantled. That's not going to happen, so get that idea the EPA is going to do anything on private property to limit diesel performance due to smoke is retarded.
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Audi and Peugot are great examples but they also don't make any where near the power a 8 second truck does. They are showing how when the people with deep pockets invest in technology we can overcome the hurdles. There is an Aussy that developed a very high pressure fuel injection, I don't see any of us running them. Also No.2 diesel is far from a great fuel. We should be running B100. I will be building my truck up this winter so I can run B100 without sacrificing fuel supply system life. It's a step. And if my chargers cannot clean up the fuel I will run nitrous.
 
800hp for 24 hours < 2000 for 8 seconds?!?!?!

I'm sure them motors are more then 1/2 of the potential output to keep reliability up. You think cummins develops parts in the 5.9 just enough to handle 350hp?
 
JasonCzerak said:
800hp for 24 hours < 2000 for 8 seconds?!?!?!

I'm sure them motors are more then 1/2 of the potential output to keep reliability up. You think cummins develops parts in the 5.9 just enough to handle 350hp?
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I didn't think they made that much power. I thought it was closer to 600hp. But yeah they have proven to be quite reliable. Has a gas won LeMans since the diesels have come out? And the new rules state they have to be restricted some more lol. Those two teams show how well a diesel can run even with a dpf in. I'm in now way advocating dpf's or egr though. Egr is just way to hard on the motor. It is backwards engineering. I don't think any of our 10 second motors could handle 24 hours at wot. There are also super farm pullers in the EU that run incredibly clean. If they can do it we will get there eventually. There is a good vid on youtube showing how clean some run. But the one I seen blew his motor in a big way!!! There will bound to be incredible hurdles squishing all that fuel and air. Talking about it here is a great start.

Here is the vid lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOkeoMkc34
 
Kind said:
I didn't think they made that much power. I thought it was closer to 600hp. But yeah they have proven to be quite reliable. Has a gas won LeMans since the diesels have come out? And the new rules state they have to be restricted some more lol. Those two teams show how well a diesel can run even with a dpf in. I'm in now way advocating dpf's or egr though. Egr is just way to hard on the motor. It is backwards engineering. I don't think any of our 10 second motors could handle 24 hours at wot. There are also super farm pullers in the EU that run incredibly clean. If they can do it we will get there eventually. There is a good vid on youtube showing how clean some run. But the one I seen blew his motor in a big way!!! There will bound to be incredible hurdles squishing all that fuel and air. Talking about it here is a great start.

Here is the vid lol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOkeoMkc34
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Those tractors don't run diesel at all they run alcohol.
 
Wow, I missed this epic thread being in meetings all day yesterday!

Ironically, just before reading this thread I was out changing the tunes in my Jetta since the last tune was way too smoky (and it showed in the fuel economy).

I have been on both sides of this coin, sometimes running 18's in my VW (and having a hard time seeing the track during a time run, when some truck in the 15's lays down more smoke than is necessary). Other times (sometimes at the same race) I am driving the G&J/MBRP DirtyMax. While this is an Isuzu motor (as someone pointed out previously), it is fuel only and cleans up right after the launch.

I have seen 12V's run pretty darn clean too, but I don't know if they were doing it at the expense of high EGTs.

I have spent a fair amount of time at dragstrips (both diesel races and gasser races). I have seen a number of incidents caused by failing to detect substances on the track. I have also seen track conditions where diesel smoke just sits there without dissipating much. Spokane, WA is a track where that can happen (the track is in a bit of a valley, with the grandstands built on the sides of the hills).

I share Ken's fear that an excessively smoky pass could cause an incident, but I know that some level of smoke is an integral part of our sport. Maybe the simplest step for now is for people to get involved if they see that guy who puts down too much smoke in a slow truck. Maybe offer to help him tune his truck a little cleaner?

Regards,
Michael Pliska
 
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Lucky Jeff said:
ok, side track, I gotta ask.. Who owns a truck like this?
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Morse did then it was sold not to long ago. It would put out a very small puff of smoke then it was gone. There is a video of it floating around somewhere on youtube.
 
a3ftgiant said:
Morse did then it was sold not to long ago. It would put out a very small puff of smoke then it was gone. There is a video of it floating around somewhere on youtube.
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and it was a daily driver that towed well, heavy? I'd be impressed if that were the case. Must have been a stripped down reg cab?
 
I think the bottom line to all this is that if we as a group do not start to do something to keep the track people happy we will be on the outside looking in. While a heavy smoke has been the way to make big power, those days are numbered by the way things are today. It may be best to get some of the lower powered guys to clean them up some as it seems to me they run the larger risk, IMO. Most of the big power trucks shoot the smoke up pretty high into the air and at the high speeds they are running down the track it doesn't cause an issue.
 
Diesel Tech said:
I think the bottom line to all this is that if we as a group do not start to do something to keep the track people happy we will be on the outside looking in. While a heavy smoke has been the way to make big power, those days are numbered by the way things are today. It may be best to get some of the lower powered guys to clean them up some as it seems to me they run the larger risk, IMO. Most of the big power trucks shoot the smoke up pretty high into the air and at the high speeds they are running down the track it doesn't cause an issue.
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In the economic times that we are in, I don't see any track owner turning anyone away. There are barley enough any cars that show up as it is. People are talking about tracks owners not wanting diesels to run. Why? There money is as good as the next guys, the issues with oil downs are no different than cars, they all break. So, smoke is the issue! Don't burn outs create smoke, it lingers if the wind is not blowing. Should they ban burn outs?

I,m not saying an 18 sec. truck should block the sun but it is a FN RACE TRACK. It's a place where you go to do the things that are illegal on the street. If your at a TNT and the person in the other lane has a problem or if the track official thinks there might be an issue then make a single pass, if is a actual event then tough, race.
 
I like the fact that our truck runs fast with a small haze behind it. Smokes some off the line till the turbos and nitrous kick in then you can see the truck well down the track in a VID. I personally believe that if you can run fast with low smoke great and better for all! If it slows you down then add some coal!
 
hummin cummins said:
In the economic times that we are in, I don't see any track owner turning anyone away. There are barley enough any cars that show up as it is. People are talking about tracks owners not wanting diesels to run. Why? There money is as good as the next guys, the issues with oil downs are no different than cars, they all break. So, smoke is the issue! Don't burn outs create smoke, it lingers if the wind is not blowing. Should they ban burn outs?

I,m not saying an 18 sec. truck should block the sun but it is a FN RACE TRACK. It's a place where you go to do the things that are illegal on the street. If your at a TNT and the person in the other lane has a problem or if the track official thinks there might be an issue then make a single pass, if is a actual event then tough, race.
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Don't agree on the point that there are barely enough cars that show up, at least at the tracks I've been to here in the west. Track are loaded every weekend with a ton of 10 sec bracket cars. Friday nite street legals in Salt lake city have 100's of cars entered just to make one pass. Even the little 1/8 mile track in my home town will have a 100-150 vehicles every weekend.
 
I want my 12 valve to run clean times. if that means using nitrous to clean it up and remain cool I guess that is where I am gonna have to head.
 
hummin cummins said:
In the economic times that we are in, I don't see any track owner turning anyone away. There are barley enough any cars that show up as it is. People are talking about tracks owners not wanting diesels to run. Why? There money is as good as the next guys, the issues with oil downs are no different than cars, they all break. So, smoke is the issue! Don't burn outs create smoke, it lingers if the wind is not blowing. Should they ban burn outs?

I,m not saying an 18 sec. truck should block the sun but it is a FN RACE TRACK. It's a place where you go to do the things that are illegal on the street. If your at a TNT and the person in the other lane has a problem or if the track official thinks there might be an issue then make a single pass, if is a actual event then tough, race.
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Yes our money is as good as the next guy.. but still the track owners are starting to become anti-diesel.... even if oil downs are equal, they will notice the diesel guys. WE are under the microscope right now. Unfortunately not everyone has the same love for diesel as we do. They dont understand, and to be honest, they dont have to, it is up to us as a group to prove to them that we do belong with them.
 
IMO i dont think it can be done with out loosing alot of power and slowing the trucks way down. Every diesel that pulls lays down a heavy trail of smoke. There are squeezing every bit of power out of them they can with the cubic inch limit they have the stay below to be better than the next guy. Impossible with out loosing power. That is one of the reason we drive diesel is bc of the amount of power we can get out of them. Less power= Less fun. The sport will die
 
Subman631 said:
Don't agree on the point that there are barely enough cars that show up, at least at the tracks I've been to here in the west. Track are loaded every weekend with a ton of 10 sec bracket cars. Friday nite street legals in Salt lake city have 100's of cars entered just to make one pass. Even the little 1/8 mile track in my home town will have a 100-150 vehicles every weekend.
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Well, I guess if you think 100 cars are a lot, It was nothing to see 250+ cars and trucks at ORP on a street legal night when I first started running diesels 5 years ago. In the last 2 years the car count has been consistently decreasing down to 75 to 100 and the slick tire TNT night there are way less than that. I am close with a lot of people at ORP and no one has a bad word to say about diesels. They are happy to have us.
 
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