high timin & driveability

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Wozxxx86

i need money
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Mar 12, 2009
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ok i got head studs goin in my truck in the next couple weeks. and i was wanting to up the timing a bit more, what would be a safe limit on a non oring head? and i hear of people talking about driveability issues with high timing on a dd. what are these issues? i know higher timin = hard winter starting.
 
Search? most posts regarding timing is 16* or so for non-oring, there are a few that get away with higher
 
from i always heard 16-16.5 was almost max for stock bolts. thats why im asking
 
Depends on wich studs. The std 2000's are not a ton better than factory bolts in the point of lifting the head, just the big benifit of pulling torque from the stud and not the threads down in the block. Ive lifted the head several times with thier std studs and got a HG. With the 625's.... they dont stretch, I run 30*+ with lots of boost and with no o-rings or fire rings. You can tell bringing the 625's to torque thier quality over the std. pieces, they dont have that "maybe feel" to them; they come to torque very quickly. Nothing to help in your driveability question but you can darn sure get by w/o fire rings or even o-rings with the better studs. Assuming your block and head are flat and prepped well....
Ryan
 
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I'm running 24+* on my 95' with stock overtorqued bolts and stock head gasket.

I'm coming up on 60 total 1/4 mile passes and no signs of leaking or headgasket issues.

I've read that if you go much past 18*, cold winter start reliability starts to diminish. I live in Las Vegas so cold starting is the least of my worries.
 
i was lookin at gettin the A1's, and as far as the timing im leanin towards 18-19. i only ask about the driveability, because ive heard people say that such and such is not good for dd but another number is etc..
 
I'm running 26* on an original HG that I studded with the head still on the truck with 324k miles. I'm also running 70psi from my twins. Ran it this way all last winter and it didn't start much harder for me at all. Maybe a 1/2 second longer crank time. MAYBE. It rarely gets below 20*F in the winter where I'm at. Drives great IMO.
 
I daily drive 24*. Its just as easy as my VP to drive. Turbo is a hair slower to spool but Not much.
 
I drove mine all winter at 19* and started it without plugging in down to 3* a few times, it sure didnt like it but it started.
 
the more timing the more you will loose off idle. im running 32 with regular studs and can kill it off idle easy if i dont give it enough throttle input or rev it. course im running timing that doesnt work with my ddp4 according to some so take it for what its worth.. oh and mine always starts fine.
 
DEZLFREK said:
the more timing the more you will loose off idle. im running 32 with regular studs and can kill it off idle easy if i dont give it enough throttle input or rev it. course im running timing that doesnt work with my ddp4 according to some so take it for what its worth.. oh and mine always starts fine.
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:poke:
 
Wozxxx86 said:
i was lookin at gettin the A1's, and as far as the timing im leanin towards 18-19. i only ask about the driveability, because ive heard people say that such and such is not good for dd but another number is etc..
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18-19 will be just fine for daily driving. That's not even enough timing to make it haze at idle when it's cold.... wimpy... wimpy...wimpy....


Real men run 20* plus!


I don't know what they call those guys that run 30* plus......
 
I ran 31-32 in my 94 with DDP4's and the truck was a pain to start in the winter but I didnt mind daily driving it. Hazed a little but ran unbeleivable in the upper RPM's. Real snotty down low and smooth as could be up over 3500
 
i'm running 20* ish with a +.010 HG and A1 studs.

seems to be fine so far, but i let the head settle and retorqued a few times before giving it anything more then 10psi of boost...

2 weeks or so to be exact... some people may whine about that, but hey.... my HG is holding
 
I used to run 21.5 degrees but living in cold winters, it was a hard starter. It has an awesome top end with that. I backed it down to 19.5 degrees and now it starts pretty fair when cold winters hit. My truck will not start on its own when the temp is below zero and wind blowin! 10*F or less it gets plugged in. But 19 degrees of timing would work well for you, but get some 4k gov springs to wake up the new top end range.
 
I used to run 26* in my daily driver and never had any real ill driveability effects vs. the 18* I currently run save for a bit of loss of turbo spool. I think your injectors and pump setup will impact driveability far far more.
 
you'll notice a bit less pep on the bottom end of it... but the top end is worth it
 
i run 20* and it started pretty good in the winter. plugged in it fired right up and idled. not plugged in with a couple cycle of the grid heater needed throttle input to start and stay running for the first minute of run time. i like 20 for the street. i run ARP studs with a stock headgasket.
 
I run 18* and it starts fine in the winter down to 0* not being plugged in and sitting for 2 days with 15-20mph winds. it hazed pretty good, but I think that was the bigger injectors I was running.
 
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