Injection pump cam updates

Hamilton Cams said:
Thank you for all of the input. The pump cams are being made in a non-union USA shop. I was just going to see if you guys wanted to spend the extra cash on a union shop. Some people would..........

The fill time is the second part of the equation, the main benefit is how much it increases the rate of injection. I will have a full report in the next few weeks as we are almost settled in the shop. Depending on how the barrel is shimmed, and what mm of rack travel you are measuring, you will decrease the time of injection around 6 degrees. Also fill time is irrelivent at this time with the springs that are used at the moment. Cam profiles easily exceed the limits of the springs used. Once we come out with our new springs, then a good measurement in flow at higher rpm can be done to show the benefit of better fill time.

The benefit of a new cam vs a regrind is better surface hardness and increased case depth.If you try to re-induction harden the OE cams after grinding, there is usually warping involved.

When a new cam is made, it is roughed in, heat treated, straightened if necessary, then finish ground.

12v-cummins after traveling a good bit in the last ten years, I have come to adopt the same sentiments. We had our heads made there because nobody in the USA would touch our project. That being said, with a very few exceptions most all of our stuff is made in the USA.
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You better find some springs quick...... Really aggressive grinds without stiffer springs will geek up even a billet cam.
 
can you be more specific when you say "the main benefit is how much it increases the rate of injection"
Is that the time from when the barell pressurizes till time of injection or what.. is this raising injection pressures ?
 
Hamilton Cams said:
The fill time is the second part of the equation, the main benefit is how much it increases the rate of injection. I will have a full report in the next few weeks as we are almost settled in the shop. Depending on how the barrel is shimmed, and what mm of rack travel you are measuring, you will decrease the time of injection around 6 degrees. Also fill time is irrelivent at this time with the springs that are used at the moment. Cam profiles easily exceed the limits of the springs used. Once we come out with our new springs, then a good measurement in flow at higher rpm can be done to show the benefit of better
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You're saying that the springs used by pump shops are not adequate for the cams being used?
 
Hamilton Cams said:
The fill time is the second part of the equation, the main benefit is how much it increases the rate of injection. I will have a full report in the next few weeks as we are almost settled in the shop. Depending on how the barrel is shimmed, and what mm of rack travel you are measuring, you will decrease the time of injection around 6 degrees. QUOTE]

6 degrees faster in reference to what cam? 6 degrees is just a number if you dont have somethin to compare it to. bosch 913 quick fill, scheid quick fill ect....?

what mm cam lift is this going to have?
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97rada said:
can you be more specific when you say "the main benefit is how much it increases the rate of injection"
Is that the time from when the barell pressurizes till time of injection or what.. is this raising injection pressures ?
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i think he's referring to the time/degrees it take for one full injection event.

example: 913 cam- 32 degress for full injection event and he is saying 6 degrees faster than that. 26 degrees of engine rotation and the injection event starts and stops in that amount of time. so more fuel in less amount of time in a nutshell. on the dyno it always makes more power from what ive seen and heard. the limit has always been camshafts. more fill time and quicker injection rate makes power. finding the happy medium between rate and fill time is the key. basically have to give up one for another as you can only get so agressive with cams before they become to steep and wear down quickly... this post makes sense to me reading it so hopefully im not confusing anyone....
 
Makes sense to me .that's what I was thinking he meant so I was just making sure
 
lenahan05 said:
i think he's referring to the time/degrees it take for one full injection event.

example: 913 cam- 32 degress for full injection event and he is saying 6 degrees faster than that. 26 degrees of engine rotation and the injection event starts and stops in that amount of time. so more fuel in less amount of time in a nutshell. on the dyno it always makes more power from what ive seen and heard. the limit has always been camshafts. more fill time and quicker injection rate makes power. finding the happy medium between rate and fill time is the key. basically have to give up one for another as you can only get so agressive with cams before they become to steep and wear down quickly... this post makes sense to me reading it so hopefully im not confusing anyone....
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In theory, the faster/shorter the injection event will leave MORE time to refill the plunger. Win win.
 
Tate said:
In theory, the faster/shorter the injection event will leave MORE time to refill the plunger. Win win.
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right but to get the extra injection time, steeper cam profiles are needed. which causes premature wear. to get the extra fill time imo it not worth pushing the limits. run somethin thats reliable and dont dwell on fill time too much. pick up your flow and fuel psi on fuel pump to get the extra fuel. n e way why did i not get an answer yet from my original post? i asked a very good question for people to ask and learn and it didnt get answered.....
 
lenahan05 said:
right but to get the extra injection time, steeper cam profiles are needed. which causes premature wear. to get the extra fill time imo it not worth pushing the limits. run somethin thats reliable and dont dwell on fill time too much. pick up your flow and fuel psi on fuel pump to get the extra fuel. n e way why did i not get an answer yet from my original post? i asked a very good question for people to ask and learn and it didnt get answered.....
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X2 there's got to be a balance somewhere. Otherwise why not just have a rectangular lobe LOL
 
teddybear said:
You're saying that the springs used by pump shops are not adequate for the cams being used?
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Learned that the hard way many years ago beating cams out of 13mm pumps, I do not miss those days at all but I'm an ace at pulling pumps. I finally understood it when I had a long talk with Dan at Columbus Diesel about it, he told me they figured that one out long ago.

Jim
 
teddybear said:
X2 there's got to be a balance somewhere. Otherwise why not just have a rectangular lobe LOL
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you mean a rectangular lobe wont work??? man i better quit running that style cam!!!!:hehe::hehe::hehe:
 
lenahan05 said:
you mean a rectangular lobe wont work??? man i better quit running that style cam!!!!:hehe::hehe::hehe:
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They're great! Ramp rates are off the charts! :lolly:

Ok dont mean to de-rail Zach's thread. Will be interesting to see what type of results come from this endeavor.
 
Jim Fulmer said:
Learned that the hard way many years ago beating cams out of 13mm pumps, I do not miss those days at all but I'm an ace at pulling pumps. I finally understood it when I had a long talk with Dan at Columbus Diesel about it, he told me they figured that one out long ago.

Jim
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13mm p&b's plus a 913 cam make for a good street pump
 
usa non union, and not sure your going to sell them without the springs to support them is 699 for just the cam or with springs once you find them?
 
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Hamilton Cams said:
Non-union it is, I hope to be able to include springs for the $699. Stay tuned
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to bad your not selling them for the $349 you originally thought you could.

but still interested in getting one.


you have anyone running one of these? dyno numbers? bench numbers? yet?
 
The entire project is being held back by the spring manufacturer sucking hind tit.

The current springs we have, we are running with the cam in the pump for the dragster. Things look really good, but we cannot test the maximum limits of the cam until the spring manufacturer gets us closer to where we need to be. The springs we are using have a higher natural frequency and less mass than the best that is being used currently, but not anywhere close to where the pressures need to be according to the calculations of our cam designer guru. It is pretty darn frustrating, but there are so many roadblocks to this project. The spring pressure needed to keep the roller in contact with the cam at 6,000 rpm with the velocity we are injecting fuel with a 13mm plunger, is not possible with the given area we have for the spring. This is going to make us concede in a few areas. There will have to be 2 springs manufactured. One for people spinning 6,000 with heavy 13 and 14mm plungers. The stresses involved will dictate springs that need to be changed every 150- 200 passes based on the stress calculations by the spring engineers. This is with the best spring material available, with all of the fancy treatments. The other springs will be for people spinning 5,000 max with 12mm and 13mm plungers for the street that are good for 100,000 miles.

There is no other way we can do this unless we start machining the case for more room and make new pieces for the spring cups. Which might end up being the answer

I apologize for the delay, but we are ordering a 1,000 test pieces that are on the edge of what is possible, when they have piles of 100,000 piece runs for easy to manufacture springs, this means the diesel world gets pushed to the back of the line.


I'm pushing my hardest!

On a good note, we finally have all of the blue prints done on the cams and they will be here in 11 weeks says the manufacturer. Both the springs and the cams are made here in the states thanks to a cam manufacturer taking on a small batch, thank you Sir. And the cams are NON-union per your requests.
 
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