Is a Cam really worth it

If your engine did not respond to a cam change, then you've got other issues that need to be worked out. The cam and cylinder head are the heart of an engine, they control the airflow going through the motor. The pistons only do the pumping, nothing else. Relying on turbos to "push air" just doesn't make sense, the turbos should be complimenting the head and cam airflow capabilities.
 
I have found that there are little improvements, big improvements, and everything in between. You can make big power with a stock cam and stock head. Just cram high pressure air into the engine with lots of fuel and timing. 1800-2000 deg egts can be tolerated for a while. Personally, I've tried some big improvements, and a whole bunch of little ones. I think all of the changes working together are responsible for being able to daily drive a fuel only 1200 hp p-pumped truck without light throttle smoke issues, very modest boost(72-75psi w/twins), and egt's around 1400. Without the little things I could easily be seeing the same high egt's and boost levels that others see. That's my take on it.
 
PRINCETON_JAKE said:
all cam builders/grinders that ive ever delt/sold with in the gas world require a zinc additive on flat tappet cams for atleast the breakin or longer, some want an oil smaple with the failed product to see the levels of zinc, or if it was used
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I understand that its an improvement to add zinc with todays oils. What I want to know is why the cam designers arent taking into consideration that the general market is not going to buy amsoil,schaeffer, brad penn etc. , to insure long life. There has to be something in the metallurgy process to help prolong the life. I mean, its not like theres a rash of oem cam failures since cj oils got introduced 4+ yrs ago.

tapatalking from droidx
 
higher rates of ramp, higher spring rate, both contribute to more load on the cam, far fewer folks run high rate springs on stock cams, if they go that far, the cam usually gets replaced as well. for a few bucks, a bottle of ZDDP is all you need.
 
mikmaze said:
higher rates of ramp, higher spring rate, both contribute to more load on the cam, far fewer folks run high rate springs on stock cams, if they go that far, the cam usually gets replaced as well. for a few bucks, a bottle of ZDDP is all you need.
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I beg to differ. F1 springs were the rave yrs ago before cam swaps were common place. Lots of trucks running aftermarket valve springs and stock cam but yet no extensive cam failure threads being reported. I have no problem spending the money on a better oil or additives but I want to know its not all in vain due to a poorly designed and developed cam.

tapatalking from droidx
 
I run amsoil and a pint of F1's zinc or 3 of the small bottles of ZDDP. I add the other 1/2 bottle of F1 or 3 bottles of zddp at 1500 miles, then change oil and repeat the process at 3k. If I get a chance, I'm going to set up small pump and bypass filter that I can slide under the truck and let run for a couple of hours after i drive it to help filter out the soot without sacrificing oil pressure by installing the bypass filter in the truck. I'll run the amsoil to 5k then.
 
Zinc issue has been around a long time in the gasser world. I used to get around it by running the older Rotella T. Had lots of zinc compared to the old gasser(grocery store) oils. Gotta be careful when running higher pressure springs. Lobe width does help spread the forces across the nose of the cam and decrease wear.
 
Blacksdieselhp said:
We have tried 4 different cams in our 2wd PS truck. It is now back to stock cam and made its fastest passes with it. 9.85@ 142. Aron Nicks 6.7 truck had a stock cam and went 10.70@ 131. So I think I'll stick with stockers unless someone wants to send one and prove me wrong.
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This is overwhelmingly what I am hearing.

So Why should I Spend $ on a cam again??? :poke:
 
RonA said:
I have found that there are little improvements, big improvements, and everything in between. You can make big power with a stock cam and stock head. Just cram high pressure air into the engine with lots of fuel and timing. 1800-2000 deg egts can be tolerated for a while. Personally, I've tried some big improvements, and a whole bunch of little ones. I think all of the changes working together are responsible for being able to daily drive a fuel only 1200 hp p-pumped truck without light throttle smoke issues, very modest boost(72-75psi w/twins), and egt's around 1400. Without the little things I could easily be seeing the same high egt's and boost levels that others see. That's my take on it.
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I'm with you Ron.

I'm thinking that a nice port job and set of roller rockers would be $ well spent.

Your thoughts?
 
The only time you'll see a gain with rollers is with crazy high rpm's or valvetrain pressure.

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Is there such a thing as getting to much air into motor.
I gust opened my intercooler feed tube up, was 2.700
I opened to 3.125. Intake side added another pipe, going
to 5&6 cyl.
 
homewrecker said:
Is the "need for zinc" additives coming from Zach or just what most are doing for peace of mind?

Care to elaborate more?

Wrecker, it can't be a coincidence in my eyes but what do I really know, not as much as some here.

Let me ask you'll this. 1. how many have seen a stock cam worn like is being talked about 2. How many of you have broken a stock cam.

Jim
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homewrecker said:
I understand that its an improvement to add zinc with todays oils. What I want to know is why the cam designers arent taking into consideration that the general market is not going to buy amsoil,schaeffer, brad penn etc. , to insure long life. There has to be something in the metallurgy process to help prolong the life. I mean, its not like theres a rash of oem cam failures since cj oils got introduced 4+ yrs ago.

tapatalking from droidx
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thats why some state if you dont use the proper lubricants you have no warrenty and are taking a gamble

homewrecker said:
I have no problem spending the money on a better oil or additives but I want to know its not all in vain due to a poorly designed and developed cam.
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forget about "diesel" cams, there are many big name world famous companies that have been around for decades and want zinc and/or a good oil, do you think its been from poor design and development too?
 
chevota84 said:
The only time you'll see a gain with rollers is with crazy high rpm's or valvetrain pressure.

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You can change the rocker ratio though, that would be the gain.
That and the reduction in friction/rolling resistance.

Like Ron said sometimes the little things add up.
 
you can gain valve lift through rocker ratio, but did you put your head on a flow bench and see what it flows at X lift? Always always pick a cam that compliments cylinder head flow!!!!!
 
I ran my helix 2 against old tappets with high pressure springs and never run zinc additive. No noticeable problems when I pulled it out 40k miles later.
 
Let's try an experiment. Lets use a super common engine, the small block chevy. For simplicity I'll use an edelbrock crate engine. Why, because pretty much anything you want to know about it is on the edelbrock site, and it "should" deliver bang on what's advertised for hp and torque. Let's pic the E-Steet Headed 9:1 compression crate engine. Here's the specs.

Specifications
Displacement: 350 c.i.d.

(4.000" bore x 3.480" stroke)

Horsepower: 315
Torque: 381
Compression: 9.0:1
Block: New GM 4-Bolt 2-Piece Rear Main Seal
Crankshaft: Cast Iron
Pistons: Cast Aluminum
Camshaft: Performer #2102
Rocker Arms: 1.5:1 Stamped Steel
Manifold: Performer EPS #2701
Cylinder Heads: E-Street #5089
Carburetor: Performer Series #1405
Water Pumps: N/A
Distributor: MSD
Valve Covers: Signature Series
Finish: Satin
Break-in Oil: Includes six quarts of Edelbrock Performance SAE30, #1070; NOTE: customer must add oil before start-up

Here is the cam specs

Camshaft: Performer-Plus

Part #: #2102

Vehicle Type: CHEVROLET

Engine Application: 265-400 V8 (1957-86)

RPM Range: Idle-5500



DURATION AS ADVERTISED INTAKE: 278° EXHAUST: 288°
DURATION @ .050 INTAKE: 204° EXHAUST: 214°
LIFT @ CAM (Lobe) INTAKE: 0.28" EXHAUST: 0.295"
LIFT @ VALVE INTAKE: 0.42" EXHAUST: 0.442"

LOBE SEPERATION: 112° INTAKE CENTERLINE: 107° IDLE VACUUM @ 1000 RPM: 14"

The information below is for verification of
opening and closing events.
INTAKE TIMING @ .050" LIFT: Opens: 5° ATDC
Closes: 29° ABDC
EXHAUST TIMING @ .050" LIFT: Opens: 44° BBDC
Closes: 10° BTDC


OPTIONAL VALVE SPRINGS: #5802/#5902
CAM FEATURES: For 1957-86 small-block Chevrolet. Produces 320 HP & 382 ft.-lbs. when matched with #2701 intake and #60909 heads.
INSTALLATION NOTES: Use Performer-Link Timing Chain and Gear Set, #7800. Do not use late model timing sets. They are machined in a retarded position and are not recommended for this camshaft installation. Edelbrock Performer-Link True Rolling Timing Sets feature three keyways for specific timing selection. Always use the – or straightup timing mark when installing Performer-Plus camshafts with Performer-Link Timing Sets.

Footnote(s): Use only Sure Seat Valve Springs, #5802 or 5902
Use only stock ratio rocker arms.

And here's the head specs

Combustion chamber volume 70cc | 64cc
Intake runner volume 185cc
Exhaust runner volume 60cc
Intake valve diameter 2.02"
Exhaust valve diameter 1.60"
Valve stem diameter 11/32"
Valve guides Manganese bronze
Deck thickness 9/16"
Valve spring diameter 1.25"
Valve spring maximum lift .550"
Rocker stud 3/8" with guide plate
Guideplate Hardended steel
Pushrod diameter 5/16"
Valve angle 23°
Exhaust port location Stock
Spark plug fitment 14mm x 3/4" reach, gasket seat
Made In USA

Flow Numbers as tested by Edelbrock's SuperFlo SF-1020 flow bench @ 28" H2O #5073, #5089
Valve Lift .100" .200" .300" .400" .500" .600" .700"
Intake 63 125 182 225 248 249 -
Exhaust 51 99 131 153 163 168 -

According to edelbrock, this engine will do 331hp and 373ft/lbs. A cam with less lift will make less power and a cam with lift any greater then .500" is absolutely useless because the head does not flow any more air at a higher lift. You will always get better power and driveability when cam and cyl head are matched.
 
I believe you are comparing apples to oranges.

You disagree that a ported head & RR won't free up some HP???

I'm talking about making things a little more efficient, with less friction, what are you talking about? Some magical head flow/cam lift formula.

This whole thread is about how a Diesel cam is different than a gas cam then you want to talk SB N/A cams. I am apparently missing your point.
 
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