Issues after cam install

1998dsmtalon

1998dsmtalon

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Alright well to start I want to state that I am in no way bashing or stating anything negative about anyone on this.

Early this spring I had a Hamilton 188/220 cam installed by the person who does any of my work I cant or dont want to do. He deals directly with Zach and only installs Hamilton valve train and Cams. At the same time I had a set of flex fans, ATS duals and a on3 performance intercooler installed. The goal was to make my already smoke free and fast spooling set up even better.

Heres my issue: with an identical tune the truck is lazy and just feels flat. There is no pep to it anymore. And you really have to lean on it to get it going. It has given Gordon at Innovative a real work out as far as tuning as concerned. Right now it works and its tolerable but it is a smokey pig. It hazes almost constantly from idle to WOT. It never really cleans up the smoke. It did before with the stock cam and single pump. It isnt pleasant to drive anymore either.

Now, if I get into it and get the RPMs to 2100-2200 its better, still hazes but not neatly as bad. But when I do that I am doing 90 mph before I know it. I dont need to drive like ricky bobby everywhere I go.

Valves are set at .010 and .020 per Zach tomorrow I am talking them to .012 and .024. Initially I had thought something was installed wrong but the guy who did it has been installed Hamilton cams for a long time. So I started asking around and found 6 trucks all with the same cam installed around the same time(with the exclusion of one). All with the exact same issues. Thats different tuners/tuning, different installers and all say exactly what I say. Flat, lazy, smokey.

Now I dont want someone to read this and think I am bashing anyone. Thats why this is here and not that other forum. Did I do something wrong? Is this normal? If relashing the valves doesnt change this thing dramatically tomorrow I am going to put the OEM cam back in...
 
I wonder if the Cam was degree'd? If 6 cams installed around the same time and they all so the same thing I wonder if something for off in the manufactoring process and if everyone had their Cam installed and just used the aligning dots and didn't use a timing wheel they all might be a little advanced or retarded?
 
I have been talking to a few about degreeing in my cam the last few weeks. If the cam is retarded then the charger will be laggy. I have no real experience yet, but its just some info that was passed to me, I'm hoping to get mine in soon.
 
Besides the aligning dots going one tooth in either direction would be way off so How does degreeing actually work? What can be adjusted Offset keyway? Or ? As any cam it takes away from one area and puts it somewhere else. So the sweet spot is moved up in RPM's. Six trucks doing the same thing would seem to be a problem!
I would think a boost leak would cause your issues have you pressurized the system yet?
I know pulling the front cover off to be sure the cam is aligned properly is a B$TCH but would remove that doubt from the equation.
 
It sounds like the cam is a tooth retarded in timing or may need an off set key to advance the timing gear.
 
I have heard about the cams needing to be degreed and of some needing an offset keyway. I am also wondering if you might have a boost leak or that fact that the ATS pumps are slightly out of timing.
 
You always need to check cam timing on ANY cam when installing it. They may not have gotten the key way cut in the correct spot. It doesn't take much for it to change the cam degree
 
Check your PRV too. It sounds like a crazy idea, but I've had two of them that got lazy and started leaking. Two pumps will keep up with commanded pressure enough to not trip a code, but my truck felt laggey and smoked more on the low to mid range of the throttle when I was having issues. Might be a long shot, but you may want to check it out before you pull the front cover off. $.02

SKYNYRD said:
I have heard about the cams needing to be degreed and of some needing an offset keyway. I am also wondering if you might have a boost leak or that fact that the ATS pumps are slightly out of timing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, those dual CP3's are really a b!tch to time. :hehe::what::umno:
 
The cam was installed on a 97 centerline. The valves were at .010/.020 and are now at .014/.022 per Zachs request. With no noticeable changes.
 
I really doubt it's the cam. From my testing a while ago there was no loss in turbo transient response or any loss of the bottom of the power curve going from stock to the 188/220. Next to no haze even with less than stock compression and monster injectors.
 
I spoke with Ryan at Hamilton earlier. He told me even though they say to install it on a 99 that having it on a 97 wont hurt it and should actually increase the low end power.

He recommended we boost leak check it. Which I have done a few times over the last few months, but we did it anyway. I found that my boost gauge line had a SMALL leak in it. No noticeable change after fixing that.

So where do I stand? I have a truck that was once single pump, stock cam that was nothing more then a light haze at WOT to a truck that is now duals and a cam that smokes constantly.

Here is 2 videos taken about a year apart to show you guys why I am so frustrated...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6UQ5PxlrG0&list=UUjwz28mKQ5o3wGcGFRPqpjg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6dwPqhKIS4&list=UUDxY7yP73nhobjLiUOm8how

...that pass was also with nitrous and still smoked that bad.
 
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And for tuning. I dont know the exacts of the tunes. But I know that Gordon has put a lot into the timing and low end tuning to make it driveable for me. And fuel has been pulled through out the tune to control the smoke...
 
My only helpful hint would be swap cam back out. Only true way of finding out if it's the problem or not. Though that is a lot of work
 
Could someone explain the difference between a 97 center line and a 99? And which would be more retarded timing or advanced timing?

2 people were told 2 different answers from the same place. Just looking I clarify.
 
What rods are in this? Also is there a change of engine tone


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1998dsmtalon said:
Could someone explain the difference between a 97 center line and a 99? And which would be more retarded timing or advanced timing?

2 people were told 2 different answers from the same place. Just looking I clarify.
Click to expand...

To my best knowledge, when you degree a camshaft you are moving the "powerband" of the camshaft up or down in the rpm range. 97 and you are going to have more low end grunt, 99 and it will have more top end pull.
 
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