it's scary what can be found in an ECM

[LReiff]

The mm3 on a race truck can be cut back because the physically larger injectors deliver fuel that the stock tune does not account for but the proper method would be to cut duration.The mm3 value in the ecm is as actual as is possible for stock injectors and pump.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

Funny not EVEN ONE other tuner is backing the chit your pumping out, I've watched them poke there heads in here and not a even a peep.

Clinic......LMFAO.....

For the last time your precious "reference value" is exactly fuel volume whether you want to believe it or not. Don't even care any more.

No, but we have other areas that we're laughing at you.

You're grasping at straws there chief.

*bdh*

Just man up, collect the rest of your stubborn azz pride, and either contribute to the thread OR GET THE "F" OUT AND QUIT SH!TTIN' IT UP WITH USELESS DRIBBLE.

 

[Joesixpack]

I hope you are not implying that it works in actual cubic millmeters of fuel.

This is duramax crap, but here's the explaination in one of the throttle based fuel quantity tables:

This table defines the base fuel injection quantity based on throttle position if the user selected EFILive DSP5 program #1 is running.
The value from this table (which is defined as mm3/st) is then used by the main fueling table as the fuel quantity that is to be delivered.
For example, if the value read from this table was 70mm3, then the main fueling tables {B0720} "Main Injection Pulse" and {B0721} "Main Injection Pulse (No Pilot)" will use 70mm3 as the reference to the Y axis of the table.


Now, yes it does say volume. It also says reference. I know for a fact that you can change the amount of fuel injected by changing duration at the SAME MM^3 value in the tune. You go to the tables that reference MM^3 and pulsewidth and increase the pulse width. This does change the actual volume of fuel delivered. It does not have anything to do with MM^3 in a literal sense. Otherwise you'd need twice as much mm^3 on a race truck as a daily driver. Not the case.

Maybe I'm misunderstading what you are saying, but you can not take the MM^3 as a literal value.

Of course if you pootch the injector conversion table your modifying the ACTUAL mm3's injected.....

HOWEVER this does not change the fact that X in this graph is in relation to fuel volume.

 

[triton]

Of course if you pootch the injector conversion table your modifying the ACTUAL mm3's injected.....

HOWEVER this does not change the fact that X in this graph is in relation to fuel volume.

In the interest of continued ed, post up some of what your tables are showing. You're saying you see more than we are, what are we missing ?

 

[Joesixpack]

No, but we have other areas that we're laughing at you.

You're grasping at straws there chief.

*bdh*

Just man up, collect the rest of your stubborn azz pride, and either contribute to the thread OR GET THE "F" OUT AND QUIT SH!TTIN' IT UP WITH USELESS DRIBBLE.

What completely baffles me is some how you managed to cobble up some tunes and manage to peddle them with such BASIC knowledge of how the ECM actually works.



It is however entirely entertaining watching you fumble around trying to explain it.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

The mm3 on a race truck can be cut back because the physically larger injectors deliver fuel that the stock tune does not account for!

Wrong!

Just, wrong!

The mm3's are not what gets cut back. If your saying mm3's are physical volume, then to make a race truck faster, you'd have to INCREASE the mm3 value to increase power.

The ONLY reason a truck idles at a lower mm3 value with larger injectors and NOTHING eles modified is the pressure and duration value in the lower cells are enough to meet its demand to maintain that idle condition.

You don't cut back mm3's on a race truck, doing so makes you adjust EVERY axis in the tune vs modifying duration and pressure to meet the fueling requirements, like I did in the tables to demonstrate it as a reference point.

If what you were saying was correct, the truck would maintain the exact same mm3 value, because that would mean it was a physical volume. Right? The mm3 value would remain constant regardless of injector size if your theory about it being a physical volume were true.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

What completely baffles me is some how you managed to cobble up some tunes and manage to peddle them with such BASIC knowledge of how the ECM actually works.



It is however entirely entertaining watching you fumble around trying to explain it.

Whats really entertaining is watching you try to peddle your BS so you save face in front of your e-friends.

 

[Joesixpack]

It's commanded fuel mm3 and rpm's



I hit the like button for your post Rich lol...... thanks for continuing the education

In the interest of continued ed, post up some of what your tables are showing. You're saying you see more than we are, what are we missing ?

Nothing else to add, other than your post above was absolutely correct, Fuel volume along X Rpms along Y.

You've already surpassed your tuner in knowledge! You understood that X was in relation to fuel volume like it was second hand, yet your tuner can't get that simple fact into his head.

 

[LReiff]

Wrong!

Just, wrong!

The mm3's are not what gets cut back. If your saying mm3's are physical volume, then to make a race truck faster, you'd have to INCREASE the mm3 value to increase power.

The ONLY reason a truck idles at a lower mm3 value with larger injectors and NOTHING eles modified is the pressure and duration value in the lower cells are enough to meet its demand to maintain that idle condition.

You don't cut back mm3's on a race truck, doing so makes you adjust EVERY axis in the tune vs modifying duration and pressure to meet the fueling requirements, like I did in the tables to demonstrate it as a reference point.

If what you were saying was correct, the truck would maintain the exact same mm3 value, because that would mean it was a physical volume. Right? The mm3 value would remain constant regardless of injector size if your theory about it being a physical volume were true.

Why don't you take a stock tune, set every table to nothing but zeros and start
from scratch to build a tune that you can call your own? Modifying a base Cummins tune has a way of messing with your mind.

 

[OSUBeaver]

What are them big ole 36,000ish numbers in the tables above?

ETA never mind. First post. Got it.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

Here, break it down crayola style for me....

If I'm running at 15000 psi and I have a duration of 702, whats the volume of fuel injected? Or would you like me to add in the injector size also?

If what you are saying is correct, that would be the same volume of fuel REGARDLESS of injector size. Why? Because its under the same mm3 value in the map?

That's what you're saying.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

Why don't you take a stock tune, set every table to nothing but zeros and start
from scratch to build a tune that you can call your own? Modifying a base Cummins tune has a way of messing with your mind.

Hey boss, my tunes don't look ANYTHING like an OEM tune.

Not a single table in mine are in any way similar to the OEM's. Not in the X, Y or Z axis or any of the data.

Neither are the tools that I created from scratch to develop the tunes.

So, try again.

 

[triton]

Nothing else to add, other than your post above was absolutely correct, Fuel volume along X Rpms along Y.

Oh no, I can't get in the middle of this. I just know it as the "cmd fuel PID" shown in mm3 which is a reference

 

[Joesixpack]

Here, break it down crayola style for me....

If I'm running at 15000 psi and I have a duration of 702, whats the volume of fuel injected? Or would you like me to add in the injector size also?

If what you are saying is correct, that would be the same volume of fuel REGARDLESS of injector size. Why? Because its under the same mm3 value in the map?

That's what you're saying.

:doh: LMFAO...LOL you do realize some of us have calibrated injector flow charts. I can tell you exactly what my injectors flow at any pressure vs time.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

So, its exactly the mm3 value, right?

Should be, if what you're spouting is true.

Do some math there for us and lets see what we get for volume.

Talkin' smack is the easy part.....lets see if your injectors volume matches up to the mm3 values.

Here's your chance, lets see your flow data and we'll do some high school math and see if you're even close.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

Lets go bucko, its as easy as scanning your flow data and running some numbers.

I stayed up this long for your BS, its time to pony up.

Because if your theory is correct, your injectors and stock injectors will be putting out the same volume, because under the exact same operating condition, they'd be under the same mm3 value.

 

[Cummin-a-long]

op:

I ain't waiting all night.

Doesn't take long to scan a piece of paper and do some math.

 

[Joesixpack]

Lets go bucko, its as easy as scanning your flow data and running some numbers.

I stayed up this long for your BS, its time to pony up.

Because if your theory is correct, your injectors and stock injectors will be putting out the same volume, because under the exact same operating condition,be under the same mm3 value.

YES for the love of god, exact mm3's and my calibration reflects it!!!!

My injector conversion table shows exactly what my injectors flow!!!! YES VOLUME FUEL.

WHAT phucking theory????? :nail:

 

[Cummin-a-long]

You had your chance.

'night.

 

[icemanjc1]

I suppose if we each had calibration charts for the oversized injectors that we run, we could change the mm3 axis points to show/make it actual. Point taken. But the way it looks to me...

said injector at this pressure and volume = this many mm3/stroke

No way stock injectors put out the same volume as oversized % injectors, just obvious. What we do with mm3 in EFI live is use it as a reference point for most everything. Shifting parameters, throttle sensitivity, timing, duration, etc. Idle~15mm3, 100% throttle~145mm3. If you know exactly what your injectors flow, you could adjust the mm3 axis to reflect your more accurate reference points. But in the end, it's still a phucking reference point in which to adjust everything else. If you tuned your truck right, it's still going to run like you want at WOT, whether it's labeled 145mm3 or 180mm3.

Why don't you take a stock tune, set every table to nothing but zeros and start
from scratch to build a tune that you can call your own? Modifying a base Cummins tune has a way of messing with your mind.

So, is he stealing tunes from someone else? Stealing from Cummins? You pissed because he's having success and bragging about it? Rich is cocky, sure, but it seems like he delivers. I can't knock him for that, I might be the same if I were in his position, I won't line up against him either. Most of us that are tuning, Cummins base tune is not even close to being recognizable. I just don't understand the comment about "build a tune you can call your own".