Race TC opinions, Single vs Triple vs ?

mondtster said:
So what are you really hoping to get out of this thread?

I've seen little to no actual converter tech in here yet, just a bunch of comments about what brand of converter everybody is running.

My best suggestion for you is to determine who you want to build your converter then call them up and see what they recommend. Having the hp/torque number your motor makes will help a lot in getting closer to the right converter the first time. IMHO you're fooling yourself if you think it will be perfect the first time out.
My suggestion would be to consider a bolt together converter for quicker stator changes and repairs.
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Some actual converter tech is what I am looking for.

And I'm pretty sure it will not be perfect out of the box, but a somewhat solid platform to build upon would sure help. The 2wd will be a learning experience all the way around.
 
BBRam said:
Some actual converter tech is what I am looking for.

And I'm pretty sure it will not be perfect out of the box, but a somewhat solid platform to build upon would sure help. The 2wd will be a learning experience all the way around.
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I posted earlier..

A simple call to Phil Taylor (Slowpoke) will net you plenty of TC info!!
He builds the converters for Jeff Garmon, Darren Morrison, Dennis Perry, etc...Plus he races his 900+ hp Super Red and does plenty of testing himself...

I bet he'd get ya setup pretty close right off....
Plus, his refresh fee's or simple cut open for changes are the most reasonable in the business...

His number is in my Sig.....
No cheerleading here, honestly trying to help ya! But for the record, He's a hell of a guy too!

David
 
X2 on phil, he took care of my damaged suncoast for way less than them and had me back going in no time.
 
BBRam said:
Anything special Brandon, or any secrets you'd care to share? lol
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Sure! My story is that Dave called me back on Monday evening at 4:55pm. We discussed the truck, the power, the turbos, zstroken, the weight, etc. Close to an hour later we'd come to the conclusion a good starting point for running a s475 on a <4500lb truck was a v10/cummins converter. He said he had what he needed to build it Tuesday and ship. So Thursday I had his converter in the truck.

We took it out to test it on the stree... oops... 'private test track'. ;) We then figured out a light vehicle with a big turbo is harder to light than a heavy vehicle? It would just begin to spool at 1850 and then fall flat on its face. Since I planned to run more timing and in much warmer weather, I called Dave and we made a plan to go with a v10/v10 -200 to see if that was enough to spool with what I wanted.

I shipped on Wednesday, someone signed for the converter on Friday. Unfortunately the converter parts didn't arrive until the following Wednesday. It took 3 days to build it and the following Monday was July 4th. So I paid the extra shipping ($140) for a brand new converter that was delivered 12 hours before the Indy NHRDA race. To my surprise, the converter works perfectly. I'm very pleased at the performance. Lockup on the street is ~50rpm because it's such a light vehicle. Lockup under full power is 150-200rpm. It spools to 20psi in under 3 seconds now. :bigsmile:

A good example of the spool is at 0:15 and 1:06 in this video when we were testing rear suspension:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRwSYV2-sdE
 
joefarmer said:
We took it out to test it on the stree... oops... 'private test track'. ;) We then figured out a light vehicle with a big turbo is harder to light than a heavy vehicle? It would just begin to spool at 1850 and then fall flat on its face. Since I planned to run more timing and in much warmer weather, I called Dave and we made a plan to go with a v10/v10 -200 to see if that was enough to spool with what I wanted.
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Were you surprised by this?

joefarmer said:
...To my surprise, the converter works perfectly. I'm very pleased at the performance. Lockup on the street is ~50rpm because it's such a light vehicle. Lockup under full power is 150-200rpm. It spools to 20psi in under 3 seconds now. :bigsmile:
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Have you calculated slippage/efficiency? Sounds fairly decent. IMHO, I wouldn't even worry about locking it up.

What does it act like on spray vs. fuel only?
 
mondtster said:
Were you surprised by this?
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Everyone I talked with guessed that a lighter vehicle would spool easier against the brakes. I have a guess to why it isn't easier, but I'm curious what you think?

mondtster said:
Have you calculated slippage/efficiency? Sounds fairly decent. IMHO, I wouldn't even worry about locking it up.

What does it act like on spray vs. fuel only?
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The more power I add, the more inefficient it becomes. Without a datalogger I can't tell you the exact numbers, but from the videos you can hear the engine pull down when I hit lockup.
 
joefarmer said:
Sure! My story is that Dave called me back on Monday evening at 4:55pm. We discussed the truck, the power, the turbos, zstroken, the weight, etc. Close to an hour later we'd come to the conclusion a good starting point for running a s475 on a <4500lb truck was a v10/cummins converter. He said he had what he needed to build it Tuesday and ship. So Thursday I had his converter in the truck.
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:hehe: I bet that was a great conversation!:umno:
 
joefarmer said:
Everyone I talked with guessed that a lighter vehicle would spool easier against the brakes. I have a guess to why it isn't easier, but I'm curious what you think?
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LOL, I think that vehicle weight has no bearing on brake stall or true stall. Afterall, you're not moving the vehicle for these tests.

Weight and gearing will have affect the flash stall however.

joefarmer said:
The more power I add, the more inefficient it becomes. Without a datalogger I can't tell you the exact numbers, but from the videos you can hear the engine pull down when I hit lockup.
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Which is what you would expect when additional torque is added.

I'm sure it will pull down some when you lock it up, but there is a generally accepted amount of converter slippage. Look at all the normal race cars, and look at how many of them run a converter clutch.

Turbo cars in general can be a challenge to pick a converter that will work well at getting on the turbo, plus have good fluid coupling once stalled. I believe there is a bit of added complexity with a diesel converter due to the engine operating RPM we have to work with. I believe that this may be part of the reason that there is a reliance on converter clutches. This is one of the things that I want to learn about and see if I can control.
 
There are many variables to consider in building a converter. Turbos, fueling, timing, etc. and as stated, it may take more than one try to get it right. You want it as tight as possible to 60' well and still easily get the turbos lit. The 13" converters are more limited in fluid coupling than the smaller gas burner counterparts, and there are less options available for them. A v-10 based unit is what most race applications are built on, and there are a few options available for it. You need to discuss your set-up with your converter builder. Oh, by the way...did I mention I have fat shaft converters available.
 
mondtster said:
LOL, I think that vehicle weight has no bearing on brake stall or true stall. Afterall, you're not moving the vehicle for these tests.

Weight and gearing will have affect the flash stall however.
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I didn't think my combination changed that much since I pulled out of a running truck and popped it in this one. I did switch injection pumps, changed the turbo from a 66 to a 71 and made my own manifold. I don't think that should be 500rpm? Maybe. It'll be interesting to see what happens with a good intake manifold and port job this season.

mondtster said:
Which is what you would expect when additional torque is added.

I'm sure it will pull down some when you lock it up, but there is a generally accepted amount of converter slippage. Look at all the normal race cars, and look at how many of them run a converter clutch.

Turbo cars in general can be a challenge to pick a converter that will work well at getting on the turbo, plus have good fluid coupling once stalled. I believe there is a bit of added complexity with a diesel converter due to the engine operating RPM we have to work with. I believe that this may be part of the reason that there is a reliance on converter clutches. This is one of the things that I want to learn about and see if I can control.
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That's why I want a slipper clutch and a trans with OD.
 
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Slowpoke said:
There are many variables to consider in building a converter. Turbos, fueling, timing, etc. and as stated, it may take more than one try to get it right. You want it as tight as possible to 60' well and still easily get the turbos lit. The 13" converters are more limited in fluid coupling than the smaller gas burner counterparts, and there are less options available for them. A v-10 based unit is what most race applications are built on, and there are a few options available for it. You need to discuss your set-up with your converter builder. Oh, by the way...did I mention I have fat shaft converters available.
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Have you ever considered and/or tried using cores other than those from Dodge diesel and v10 applications? This is one of the things that I've been wanting to try...

joefarmer said:
I didn't think my combination changed that much since I pulled out of a running truck and popped it in this one. I did switch injection pumps, changed the turbo from a 66 to a 71 and made my own manifold. I don't think that should be 500rpm? Maybe. It'll be interesting to see what happens with a good intake manifold and port job this season.
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Without knowing all the specifics, I would say that the turbo swap is what killed your performance.
 
Yes, there are other options, they require a good bit of machining. I use them when I have to. No gains over the 618's, may as well use them.
 
This is our TC convertor from Mike . As you can see it is a sweet piece ! The flex plate comes with the TC also . This TC has the largest clutch in any of the diesel TC's that i have seen so far . I know i have only put one pass on this TC but in that one pass it felt like worlds apart from the other ones we have been trying ! And theres nothing better than being able to easily inspect your TC by taking some bolts out !
 

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Slowpoke said:
Yes, there are other options, they require a good bit of machining. I use them when I have to. No gains over the 618's, may as well use them.
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Thanks for the info. Knowing that, I may not bother pursuing it.
 
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