silver bullet and stock injectors?

iracemx6 said:
It is a 62/86 and is a nice upgrade as long as the injectors aren't too big.

175's would probably be perfect for that setup.

The 62/86 in my opinion is better than the 65/88 setup and doesn't surge plus has more bottom and midrange
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Is the 62/86 wheel different from the one that Jeremy told me on the phone that he was drilling through and putting a nut on the shaft? I believe that someone had measured a 62 wheel they got and it was from the turbo that was on the DT466.
 
PSDPlayer said:
Is the 62/86 wheel different from the one that Jeremy told me on the phone that he was drilling through and putting a nut on the shaft? I believe that someone had measured a 62 wheel they got and it was from the turbo that was on the DT466.
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Doug...I'm not sure.

I actually got the 62/86 from Industrial Injection when they rebuilt the turbo.

I got the 60/82 form Jeremy and I don't know what turbo it come from.
It did work well with stock injectors and had good bottom end.
 
I remember us having that II discussion. Ok lets combine this info. If II is installing a 62/86 wheel in their hybrids. Is this the same wheel thats in the S300 62mm turbo they are using for the 6.0L kits?

If we can confirm this then we can move on to the next discussion of if a 64.7/88mm wheel from garret which has been used from Beans. And is now the wheel of the VGT-SS. Where the VGT-HO uses a 67.1. And those compressor wheels have shown to move enough air for only 480 to a little over 500hp and possible claims of 550. Then why would the 62mm recommendation keep popping up especially if 64.7, 66, and 67.1 DON'T clean up 225s.

If you pick up 100, 200, 300HP with nitrous over a 62, 64, 64.7, 66, and 67.1mm wheel, then why not take a look at the camshaft, or the cylinder head, or the intake manifold?

Oh wait a sec. I am....
 
PSDPlayer said:
I remember us having that II discussion. Ok lets combine this info. If II is installing a 62/86 wheel in their hybrids. Is this the same wheel thats in the S300 62mm turbo they are using for the 6.0L kits?

If we can confirm this then we can move on to the next discussion of if a 64.7/88mm wheel from garret which has been used from Beans. And is now the wheel of the VGT-SS. Where the VGT-HO uses a 67.1. And those compressor wheels have shown to move enough air for only 480 to a little over 500hp and possible claims of 550. Then why would the 62mm recommendation keep popping up especially if 64.7, 66, and 67.1 DON'T clean up 225s.

If you pick up 100, 200, 300HP with nitrous over a 62, 64, 64.7, 66, and 67.1mm wheel, then why not take a look at the camshaft, or the cylinder head, or the intake manifold?

Oh wait a sec. I am....
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You are missing one point Doug. He tows up to 10,000lbs. That's why the 64, 66, 67 and 70mm wheels don't come into play. Forget the injector size, to pull the 10k, he needs a smaller turbo with quick spool up. we just pull all of the fuel back out of the injectors, so they become 140 or some crap like that.

If he wasn't towing and wanted performance, then we would be discussing larger turbos. Now, Josh at Spartan says he pulls 10k or 12k (Don’t remember) with a 66. I have a hard time with that. Not saying he cannot, but I think he has learned how to drive with it and makes it work. I have a heck of a spot where I’m way below the charger and I would be afraid to pull a trailer considering that is where I do most of my town to town driving (55 to 65mph).

My issue is from a couple different reasons. Mostly because my turbo is a competition turbo, so it is a little laggy (starts spooling around 1800rpms), so we don’t have a back pressure issue. I can put a different turbo on that will spool much quicker with higher pressure than use a wastegate to release some of that pressure. I will go to that setup here in a couple weeks, but until then, I have to use what’s available.

As far as cleaning up 225's, there are a couple issue what that, but I'm not going to get into that discussing until a later time. Turbo sizing is part of the issue for sure.
 
^^^^^ I agree!!

I couldn't imagine trying to tow that much with my 200's unless it was on flat ground let alone 225's.

I also agree that driving style makes a big difference because I have had to change mine since going with larger injectors.
 
Doesn't II have three VGT turbos now? Do we see any benefit to trying to get away from the VGT design and just going with a normal turbine/housing?
 
Yes and no.

VGT’s will always spool quicker than a fixed geometry turbo. The benefits of a fixed geometry turbo start becoming apparent with larger wheels and high horsepower vehicles.
 
hpprose said:
You are missing one point Doug. He tows up to 10,000lbs. That's why the 64, 66, 67 and 70mm wheels don't come into play. Forget the injector size, to pull the 10k, he needs a smaller turbo with quick spool up. we just pull all of the fuel back out of the injectors, so they become 140 or some crap like that.

If he wasn't towing and wanted performance, then we would be discussing larger turbos. Now, Josh at Spartan says he pulls 10k or 12k (Don’t remember) with a 66. I have a hard time with that. Not saying he cannot, but I think he has learned how to drive with it and makes it work. I have a heck of a spot where I’m way below the charger and I would be afraid to pull a trailer considering that is where I do most of my town to town driving (55 to 65mph).

My issue is from a couple different reasons. Mostly because my turbo is a competition turbo, so it is a little laggy (starts spooling around 1800rpms), so we don’t have a back pressure issue. I can put a different turbo on that will spool much quicker with higher pressure than use a wastegate to release some of that pressure. I will go to that setup here in a couple weeks, but until then, I have to use what’s available.

As far as cleaning up 225's, there are a couple issue what that, but I'm not going to get into that discussing until a later time. Turbo sizing is part of the issue for sure.
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You are correct. I thread jacked this off into a tangent about a wheel size. And for that I appologize. However... Since he is using the stock injectors now, why not stay with the stock turbo and run a more aggressive towing file? I mean 1000s of dollars instead of a tune upgrade? It's his money, but I know I would just change the file.
 
hpprose said:
Yes and no.

VGT’s will always spool quicker than a fixed geometry turbo. The benefits of a fixed geometry turbo start becoming apparent with larger wheels and high horsepower vehicles.
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Here we aggree. The fixed geometry stuff allows you to get creative in the tunability of the setups and offer a less complicated install.
 
I see, well that all makes sense. Now here is my question. The duramax and us are close, with the expection of fuel injection system(which inturn realtes to various aspects of emission control systems). Do they have the problems related to backpressure as well(since we both have VGT's)?
 
Spectre32 said:
I see, well that all makes sense. Now here is my question. The duramax and us are close, with the expection of fuel injection system(which inturn realtes to various aspects of emission control systems). Do they have the problems related to backpressure as well(since we both have VGT's)?
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They have a narrower unison ring which means wider vanes in the turbine housing for less restriction. But some years are different. But what exactly do you mean by problems with backpressure? You can open our turbo up all the way and pressure drops right off. But at .8 A/R its rather large for the lack of flow from the head.
 
I should have said backpressure, it was not the correct wording. What I wanted to know was does the Dmax have the same issues as the 6.0L when sizing a turbo for a particular application. If it does or does not, is it becusase of inherent design differences between the two or is this strictly a turbo issue?
 
From what I was looking at, once you change the passenger side manifold. And the mounting adapter to reduce its inherit restriction. The heads flow alot better than ours. And probably has a better cam profile.
 
The two engines are hard to compare. Outside of them both being V8's, there are so many differences that your question really cannot be answered. The Duramax engines don’t have the same backpressure problem we have. That’s probably not simple because of the different turbo. I would assume that it is a combination of components.
 
Well I would assume the head is better or perhaps takes to modification better.. since its AL. I figured that it being a common rail may have something to do with it and its intake manifold is different from ours as well.
 
Why not use the stock VGT, and a non-vgt, in a twin set-up?
I know this has been beat to death, but really, if the stock turbo is too restrictive, install a wastegate. (Your prolly gonna do that anyways for a Non-VGT type turbo)
With the quick spool of the stock turbo, and the top end of a non-vgt, that would be awesome.
Looking at the Duramax twin turbo sets...some use the stock vgt turbo...
 
The stock turbo is a restriction from the exhaust side, so adding a wastegate would help, but then you have the compressor housing and wheel becoming the next restriction. They won't flow enough to support much over 500 or 550.

Perhaps someone's modified VGT, but the factory one shouldn't work right. Plus, if you have a properly balanced and matched twin turbo set up, you really don't need the VGT.
 
The restriction in the stock turbo comes from having to close down the turbine side to spin the thing fast enough to generate the boost level from the small compressor wheel. If you open the turbo all the way up you have a little turbine wheel with roughly a 14cm housing.
 
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