Single vs. Double ladder bars.

2wpuller said:
lift_bars_v_traction_bars.jpg


Tell me if I am rite or wrong on my theory on that it pushes like the single bar.
Dale
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that is why you need a shackle with that style of bars.

Garrett
 
Now Im unsure if this will work.

I have a plate that bolts under the axle. The centerline of the ladder bar joint is equal with the center of the axle.

Now if I went with dual bars the upper bar joint on the axle would be 7" higher than the lower and at least 3" ahead of it.

Will that discrepency make the axle wrap? Seeing as they both meet at eh same point on the frame.

Ideas? auto cad owners?
 
roachie said:
Now Im unsure if this will work.

I have a plate that bolts under the axle. The centerline of the ladder bar joint is equal with the center of the axle.

Now if I went with dual bars the upper bar joint on the axle would be 7" higher than the lower and at least 3" ahead of it.

Will that discrepency make the axle wrap? Seeing as they both meet at eh same point on the frame.

Ideas? auto cad owners?
Click to expand...


Unless I am missunderstanding you that should work fine You just fromed a triangle That will stop axle wrap. Single bars from a triangle also. When the frame pulls down on top of the axle is becomes solid. That is if you have good solid stops.


FWIW I do not care for the shackle set up. Those that think the akle will not push forward are mistaken. It will. If you need some give use rod ends like on big truck torque arms. They have rubber bushing in them.
 
ladder bars 008.jpg


The shackle will allow the leaf springs to move without binding, pure and simple. A single bar tied to the bottom of the rear end housing, and attached to the frame will only contribute to maintaing a decent pinion angle. A triangulated bar, will use the torque of the power input into the pinion to provide lift into the chassis. Single bars are cheap to make, and do serve a needed purpose they will never perform like a triangulated bar with a shackle, on both the track and the street for daily usage.

ladder bars 003.jpg
 
From what I remember frome my gasser drag cars:

Ladder bars used on a leaf spring vehicle need and an axle floater to allow the axle to pivot with the bars instead of the spring. ( An axle floater allows the axle to be mounted to a leaf spring and rotate.

If no floater is used, the axle will bind due to having two seperate pivot points and no movemnet between them.

I havent seen a floater that will fit out trucks. Using a shakle would aleaviate the binding but would open up the possibility of the axle going forward. I do not like them for this reason.


:blahblah1:
 
The green dots are the links on the bars, the bar they attach to is fixed to the frame.

ladderbars.jpg
[/IMG]
 
With a multi leaf spring arrangement, it isn't going to give enough to allow for that kind of movement. We have a load of high powered trucks running this same setup, it is the best of all worlds. With the pinion angle maintained, how would one suppose that the springs are going to wrap. The front would have to become an "S" shape and the rear spring section would need to become completely straight and level, for the shackle to move forward. With spring packs being as thick and stiff as they are, it isn't happening.
 
WICKEDDIESELS said:
With a multi leaf spring arrangement, it isn't going to give enough to allow for that kind of movement. We have a load of high powered trucks running this same setup, it is the best of all worlds. With the pinion angle maintained, how would one suppose that the springs are going to wrap. The front would have to become an "S" shape and the rear spring section would need to become completely straight and level, for the shackle to move forward. With spring packs being as thick and stiff as they are, it isn't happening.
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Ive stood and watched it happen to trucks at the local pulls. Usually lifted trucks. And they had the bars you describe. It was bad enough to make the ring gear become external on one.
 
I can see where that could be a problem, I would say that the pinion angle would have been the main problem there, that or no blocks.
 
WICKEDDIESELS said:
View attachment 12478


The shackle will allow the leaf springs to move without binding, pure and simple. A single bar tied to the bottom of the rear end housing, and attached to the frame will only contribute to maintaing a decent pinion angle. A triangulated bar, will use the torque of the power input into the pinion to provide lift into the chassis. Single bars are cheap to make, and do serve a needed purpose they will never perform like a triangulated bar with a shackle, on both the track and the street for daily usage.

View attachment 12479
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Very nice bars! :rockwoot:
 
even with bars, I have seen a ford "not to pick on any make just what it was" with ladder bars twist the pumpkin up and almost hit the bed floor I think if you are going to be doing any pulling you should weld the tubes as well.
 
JOHNBOY said:
That is fine and dandy but does that help? Newton says "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" That means the harder your rear bites the more the front lifts. Like on loose tracks your front does not lift as much as it does on tight tracks. Because of traction and the force involved. On loose tracks guys will move weight back to help get more rear bite. I guess it comes down to which end do you want doing the work. The rearend is far beefer and far simpler with less parts involved. It all comes down to balance IMHO. I like the long bar because it lifts more which plants the rear harder. That means I can tune the bite and lift with front weight vs rear weight and or hitch height.


Really? Just monkey see monkey do? Or maybe years ago someone modeled this up. Nobody could have done that.:doh: We all just went to the scrap pile grabbed the welder and beer and got er done!:rolleyes: No thought to length, angle, and mounting postion.:Cheer:
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Show me were a longer bar plants harder ...Then I will show you , I dunno why most of u Dmax guys have such long bars gets me .. But one guy with a DMAX knows that it doesnt take 6ft bars , you might or to look at Ric S he might help u out
 
All else being equal, longer traction bars will help when hooking... short bars plant the rear tires directly, while longer bars transfer weight from the front axle to the rear tires for more tractive force.
 
Why do u want the front to lift to get more traction to the rear when u got a 50+ thousand sled hooking the rear already and you want the front to lift and loose what little traction the front has in a 4WD pulling truck ???
 
XLR8R said:
All else being equal, longer traction bars will help when hooking... short bars plant the rear tires directly, while longer bars transfer weight from the front axle to the rear tires for more tractive force.
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Rods said:
Why do u want the front to lift to get more traction to the rear when u got a 50+ thousand sled hooking the rear already and you want the front to lift and loose what little traction the front has in a 4WD pulling truck ???
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I don't understand the whole theory that you guys are talking about, but these videos are all the proof I need. The Reedsville hook lifted the front of my truck badly, watch it squat at the end of the run....looks like about 3" or better. The Fayette video is after installing my bars, front end stays flat. My bars are 78"+heim joints.

Reedsville - stock suspension up front

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz221hfNGOU

Fayette - 2" leveling kit is on the front.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPwOiZ0ssB4
 
Umm... trust me, you don't have 50K (or 80K ;)) pounds on your lunette when you come out of the hole.

Increasing the rear wheel traction at launch helps to attain higher wheel speeds - inertia of the sled is key ya know - after all, it's just physics! :bang
 
JOHNBOY said:
Unless I am missunderstanding you that should work fine You just fromed a triangle That will stop axle wrap. Single bars from a triangle also. When the frame pulls down on top of the axle is becomes solid. That is if you have good solid stops.


FWIW I do not care for the shackle set up. Those that think the akle will not push forward are mistaken. It will. If you need some give use rod ends like on big truck torque arms. They have rubber bushing in them.
Click to expand...

Those are the type of ends that I made the bars for my sons old truck have a set of new end on the shelf for the new truck.

Dale
 
XLR8R said:
Umm... trust me, you don't have 50K (or 80K ;)) pounds on your lunette when you come out of the hole.

Increasing the rear wheel traction at launch helps to attain higher wheel speeds - inertia of the sled is key ya know - after all, it's just physics! :bang
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So then why does everyone hang weight(when aloud) on the front of the truck rather then just putting it in the bed? based on what you just said to me it would make more sense to put the weight in the bed then run a set of short bars that will load the tires even more. I would think that would give you the most traction to the back tires to get your ground speed up out of the hole. But why would you want to do that with a 4wd truck when you have all 4 pulling. I see no problem with a setup that transfers weight to the back if your pulling with a 2wd but a 4wd just doesn't make any sense to me.

Also if the weight transfer is good why doesn't everyone who builds a dedicated puller get a single cab long bed? since it has a shorter wheelbase it would be less likely to resist weight transfer as apposed to any of the other body styles that have a longer wheelbase witch will try to resist weight transfer?
 
black4x4 said:
So then why does everyone hang weight(when aloud) on the front of the truck rather then just putting it in the bed? based on what you just said to me it would make more sense to put the weight in the bed then run a set of short bars that will load the tires even more. I would think that would give you the most traction to the back tires to get your ground speed up out of the hole. But why would you want to do that with a 4wd truck when you have all 4 pulling. I see no problem with a setup that transfers weight to the back if your pulling with a 2wd but a 4wd just doesn't make any sense to me.

Also if the weight transfer is good why doesn't everyone who builds a dedicated puller get a single cab long bed? since it has a shorter wheelbase it would be less likely to resist weight transfer as apposed to any of the other body styles that have a longer wheelbase witch will try to resist weight transfer?
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Good Post!
 
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