Think I Blew Head Gasket. The plan is to......

first of all, if your going to use studs, make sure that all the holes are bottom tapped, i was shocked at all the stuff that came out of the bolt holes in the block, i got a really nice spiral bottoming tap(thread pitch is M12x1.75) from MSC supply for about $20. it was well worth it, i just did mine head over the winter, i only torqued my studs to 130 with moly, i dont know if would go to 145 with the ARP 2000 series studs, thats really borderline stress for the stud, especially if you have got really high cylinder pressure(nos, water meth, high timing, lots o boost etc.),now keep in mind the new arp kits have a slightly shorter long studs(the stud that goes where the rocker arm tower is), so that there is no valve cover clearance issues. remember back in the day when we had to grind down the webbing, and slightly knock out a hole in the valve cover so the valve cover would clear the stud, and seal right, well arp went back and shortend the stud, only problem with that is that the rocker arm support tower has to be machined down in the corner where is stud is so that there is enough thread protrusion to install the washer, and nut. a local machine shop did mine for about $30. there should be instructions in the kit that have the dimensions of the material that needs to be removed from the rocker arm support towers. i got eveything back together, fired the truck up, drove around the neighborhood keeping boost under 5psi to let the engine come up to operating temp, and kept it there for about 10min. got back in the garage, immediately plugged in the block heater to help retain the heat in the engine, took all thats needs to come back off to do the retorque, broke each stud loose one at a time!!! in the cummins sequence. only loosen one stud, and torque that stud so the head does not relax. backed the stud out, and retightend hand tight, some of them seemed like they got tight in the block, this is normal and happens from normal tightening. reapplied moly to the nut, and washer, then torqued in the cummins sequence. i would not reccomend line torquing the studs to start with. ARP has the right sequence on the back of the direction sheet. basically start out in the middle and work your way out. if you follow the sequence right, the front 2 studs closest to the rad., will be the last 2 that you torque. do this also for when you first install the studs, and torque them. by having some heat in the engine, it allows the studs to relax a little bit, even though your are torquing them, when the metal cools down it will shrink, and the head will bite into the gasket even more. reset your valves, cause the head is going to settle, and the valves are going to get tight, after the 2nd retorque, i drove the truck around for about a week with low boost, i did my best to keep it under 10psi. this is very critical if you want things to seal up good. the following weekend i did eveything i just described above. i then drove the truck for about a month or two, only really romped on it a few times, i drove say about 2,500miles or so, and did another retorque. so far i have 4 retorques on the head, and i have seen the head settle each time, granted it got less each time, but it still setteled. im hoping eveything is good now, i have done 2 fire ring setups before this oring setup, and both had failed, eventhough they are installed correctly. i hope this helps you out nick. feel free to ask anything. take your time, and you'll do great.

wes
 
Thanks for the additional info everyone! Did you guys have to have the area in the rocker pedestool turned down like wdmig said with your ARP 2000 studs?
 
Ok, I take it the only way to machine the rocker stands is to have them flat milled? Only thing I have is a bench grinder and die grinders.
 
Sounds like you aren't 100% sure that your head gasket is leaking, why fix it if it isn't broken? I understand you don't want to torch a hole between 2 cylinders but are you sure it needs a head job?

Why not add another 5 ft-lbs to each bolt next time you have a free hour. Check valve lash before you start and see if you get a little more gasket squish. If lash changes, you are getting more squish.
 
Are you sure of a blown gasket? My 94 race truck runs about 1 3/4 to 2 1/2'' below the cap line and i leave around 3'' in the resivor. When we run are trucks hard the thermo expantion is up vs daliy driving habbits. My race truck has been this way since last season. That just my thoughts.
 
Yes, it needs to be flat milled. It took me two hours to do mine with many interruptions from students wondering why I was there since I graduated last school year. Shouldn't take a good machinist more than an hour-hour and a half for all six, if that. I took .030 cuts every time and made sure the finish was cherry smooth.
 
i have never heard of retorqing the way wes described

(while hot)

have built a lot of race stuff and have always heat cycled the motors then did the retorque when they were stone cold (time permitting)

wes, i have a open mind, love to learn new hp tricks, could you please explain the theory behind having the motor hot when you tighten the fasteners?

thanks

don
 
the reason why is the studs are slightly longer more "relaxed", while you are doing the retorque, you wont be able to see or feel the difference, but once you have done the retorque, and the engine cools down, the stud is going to want to shrink back to its orginal size, and when that happens, it will pull the head tighter against the gasket, that is why you want to have almost operating temp on the engine while you do the reotrque. yes you can do it cold, but alot of people suggest that you get better results with some heat. it not so much a hp trick, its just help you do the repair right, and ensure that you can have the head settled as much as possible. also for the rocker towers, they need to be milled parallel, as flat as possible, so that they torque down right. you cant do that with a hand grinder.

wes
 
Are you sure of a blown gasket? My 94 race truck runs about 1 3/4 to 2 1/2'' below the cap line and i leave around 3'' in the resivor. When we run are trucks hard the thermo expantion is up vs daliy driving habbits. My race truck has been this way since last season. That just my thoughts.

Brad, trust me I've thought about that time and time again. But the bubbling of the coolant in the reservoir that shows up is what's bothering me. What do you think about the coolant bubbling in the reservoir? It does it some times and other times not since running the truck hard.

I haven't taken down the truck yet and would sure like not to have to address these problems but if I had to guess I'm not going to get that lucky.
 
Are you sure of a blown gasket? My 94 race truck runs about 1 3/4 to 2 1/2'' below the cap line and i leave around 3'' in the resivor. When we run are trucks hard the thermo expantion is up vs daliy driving habbits. My race truck has been this way since last season. That just my thoughts.

So I understand this right, are you saying you start off with only 3" from the bottom of the reservoir to the level of coolant you run and at the end of a run you fill the reservoir up to 1 3/4" to 2 1/2" below the top where the cap is?
 
I figured on the rocker straps needing to be bench milled. Luckily I may be able to pick up a set already milled!
 
the reason why is the studs are slightly longer more "relaxed", while you are doing the retorque, you wont be able to see or feel the difference, but once you have done the retorque, and the engine cools down, the stud is going to want to shrink back to its orginal size, and when that happens, it will pull the head tighter against the gasket, that is why you want to have almost operating temp on the engine while you do the reotrque. yes you can do it cold, but alot of people suggest that you get better results with some heat. it not so much a hp trick, its just help you do the repair right, and ensure that you can have the head settled as much as possible. also for the rocker towers, they need to be milled parallel, as flat as possible, so that they torque down right. you cant do that with a hand grinder.

wes

doesn't make any sense... torque cold... then, when the cylinder head expands with heat it applies more pressure to the gasket.

been working on hot rods and engines all my life... I also used to calibrate torque equipment.

there are cold torque specs, and there are hot torque specs...

if you torque a warm engine fastener to a cold spec, you are not getting the same clamping force.
 
I think the cold vs. warm thing can be answered by finding the coeffecient of expansion in both the stud and head/block material.

I understand aluminum motors grow quite a bit throwing off lash specs but that is in that instance. I also understand iron motors do the same thing just not ast much but do not understand iron block vs. arp 2000 material growth. Anyone have any input?
 
they should be loosened before the next torque step

Nick, you can put a few studs through the head and hold them in place w/ rubber bands, have the head floating over the block w/ a hoist, then thread a few studs to help properly locate the head as you're setting it down.

main thing is you don't want that heavy bastard to come down wrong and nick the gasket (BTDT :( )

Yep, we did that with my gasket, got it in there on a funky angle and it moved a little fast. got paranoid and pulled the head back out to find it nicked. No real way to get a new gasket, so we opted for a can of the copper spray.. It's been holding just fine with my moderate amount of boost and possibly high-ish back pressure. Studs were torqued down to 120 I think, then to 135 over a few increments. Waited a few hours after the studs were in place and checked the torque and had to turn a few. no block heater cycles.
 
hmm - my motor has two dowels to line the head up - studs go in after

so my motor is for pulling, and wont be seeing all of these heat cycles talked about here between retorques - never mind a weeks runnin time before gettin onto it full bore and full boost

so to retorque, once or twice before the new motor makes a pass is done how?

Just warm it and shut it down, or is the water jacket heater enough?

thanx

Ken
 
hmm - my motor has two dowels to line the head up - studs go in after

so my motor is for pulling, and wont be seeing all of these heat cycles talked about here between retorques - never mind a weeks runnin time before gettin onto it full bore and full boost

so to retorque, once or twice before the new motor makes a pass is done how?

Just warm it and shut it down, or is the water jacket heater enough?

thanx

Ken


3rd gen's only one one dowel in the back left. you need a stud up front to help line things up.
 
What i mean is the resivor is 3'' up from the bottom. The radiator is 1 3/4 to 2 1/2 below the cap seal area.
 
What i mean is the resivor is 3'' up from the bottom. The radiator is 1 3/4 to 2 1/2 below the cap seal area.

I'm still a little confused:confused:

So if I read this and the previous statment right you are filling your reservoir up after a hard run with about 8 to 10 inches of coolant right?
 
3rd gen's only one one dowel in the back left. you need a stud up front to help line things up.

Are you sure about that? My 05 has two. What often happens though is that one of the dowels will get pushed up into the head, and people think there is only one. You can take a tap, and pull it back out of the head. I use a little (very little) locktite to hold the dowel in the block.

Paul
 
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