What can you do in under 8 seconds?

[dieselfan12]

Dezl, you really don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Just stop.

 

[sleepur606]

Lastly, why would the smokey guys have an up hill battle? Or are you referring to a smokey daily driver?

I believe that dieselfan is referring to the attempt or progression toward "Clean Diesel Technology" that OEMs and many aftermarket companies are striving to achieve. It's a lot easier for guys who aren't smoking, either because of nitrous or fuel calibration, to completely rid an engine of smoke rather than starting with the heavy smokers that are pouring out black even in the optimum power band.

The uphill battle refers to the greater distance needed to achieve clean running engines over the already clean running engines in use by the manufacturers (even though they use DPFs) or by crews such as the one from Banks.

I have not one problem with Darren or his run. This had all been hashed out in the other thread that is now closed, too bad, it was fun to bash someone else for a change. Darren, good luck to you in your future endeavors. I wish you and the rest of the guys nothing but the best.

Later
Chris

 

[PSDPlayer]

I believe that dieselfan is referring to the attempt or progression toward "Clean Diesel Technology" that OEMs and many aftermarket companies are striving to achieve. It's a lot easier for guys who aren't smoking, either because of nitrous or fuel calibration, to completely rid an engine of smoke rather than starting with the heavy smokers that are pouring out black even in the optimum power band.

The uphill battle refers to the greater distance needed to achieve clean running engines over the already clean running engines in use by the manufacturers (even though they use DPFs) or by crews such as the one from Banks.

I have not one problem with Darren or his run. This had all been hashed out in the other thread that is now closed, too bad, it was fun to bash someone else for a change. Darren, good luck to you in your future endeavors. I wish you and the rest of the guys nothing but the best.

Later
Chris

I had a late night chat with someone about this "Clean Diesel" technology. I was actually quite amused by these efforts. We were talking about Ford and its efforts. They are using post combustion injections of fuel. Regeneration is separate to itself. The reason behind this, spraying fuel into the cylinder lowers hydrocarbon and particulate matter emmisions. Putting the filter on the exhaust was then added to trap what they can't get rid of. The soot modeling tables attempt to reduce particulate emmisions as much as possible.

I almost pissed myself laughing. So they are fueling it to make the power. and then fueling it to lower the emmisions. 350hp and 6mpg. Makes sense now. I asked about working to increase boost in lower engine speeds to increase volumetric efficiency of the motors. Or possibly Cam profile changes. I was told Boost was old school and post injection is the current technology. What a joke. Move over volumetric efficiency. Here comes fuel tricks.

Ford would rather just slap on a filter and spray some fuel in than spend some time with piston design cam profiles or turbo selection. Injection timing changes are being avoided by some tuning companies because of NOx emissions. Its just craziness I tell you.

 

[dieselfan12]

I had a late night chat with someone about this "Clean Diesel" technology. I was actually quite amused by these efforts. We were talking about Ford and its efforts. They are using post combustion injections of fuel. Regeneration is separate to itself. The reason behind this, spraying fuel into the cylinder lowers hydrocarbon and particulate matter emmisions. Putting the filter on the exhaust was then added to trap what they can't get rid of. The soot modeling tables attempt to reduce particulate emmisions as much as possible.

I almost pissed myself laughing. So they are fueling it to make the power. and then fueling it to lower the emmisions. 350hp and 6mpg. Makes sense now. I asked about working to increase boost in lower engine speeds to increase volumetric efficiency of the motors. Or possibly Cam profile changes. I was told Boost was old school and post injection is the current technology. What a joke. Move over volumetric efficiency. Here comes fuel tricks.

Ford would rather just slap on a filter and spray some fuel in than spend some time with piston design cam profiles or turbo selection. Injection timing changes are being avoided by some tuning companies because of NOx emissions. Its just craziness I tell you.

Anything you do to reduce soot increases NOx and anything you do to reduce NOx increases soot. It's not a simple or fun process to meet the EPA demands. Engines would be so much more fuel efficient without NOx considerations but we do not have that luxury in the OEM world. You do in the Motorsport world though. Creating power without the exhaust particulates is the future of Motorsports.

 

[PSDPlayer]

Anything you do to reduce soot increases NOx and anything you do to reduce NOx increases soot. It's not a simple or fun process to meet the EPA demands. Engines would be so much more fuel efficient without NOx considerations but we do not have that luxury in the OEM world. You do in the Motorsport world though. Creating power without the exhaust particulates is the future of Motorsports.

But they don't even try to help themselves out with improved head porting or manifold design. The DPFs and injection events seem like band-aids to lackluster engine design.

I was told the exhaust comming out of a 6.7 cummins before the filter is cleaner than the exhaust coming from the powerstroke AFTER the filter. If this is true, what a joke.

 

[dieselfan12]

But they don't even try to help themselves out with improved head porting or manifold design. The DPFs and injection events seem like band-aids to lackluster engine design.

I was told the exhaust comming out of a 6.7 cummins before the filter is cleaner than the exhaust coming from the powerstroke AFTER the filter. If this is true, what a joke.

We are way behind in engine development compared to the rest of the world. Old engine technology trying to meet new requirements. It's full of band-aids. The big 3 OEMs are hurting so they don't have the resources or funding they need.

 

[quarterman]

I believe that dieselfan is referring to the attempt or progression toward "Clean Diesel Technology" that OEMs and many aftermarket companies are striving to achieve. It's a lot easier for guys who aren't smoking, either because of nitrous or fuel calibration, to completely rid an engine of smoke rather than starting with the heavy smokers that are pouring out black even in the optimum power band.

The uphill battle refers to the greater distance needed to achieve clean running engines over the already clean running engines in use by the manufacturers (even though they use DPFs) or by crews such as the one from Banks.

I have not one problem with Darren or his run. This had all been hashed out in the other thread that is now closed, too bad, it was fun to bash someone else for a change. Darren, good luck to you in your future endeavors. I wish you and the rest of the guys nothing but the best.

Later
Chris

I'm with you chris it sucks they shut our throw greg under the bus for his dumass and egomaniac comments. This nox and pre injection post injection is so boring. The rejection of the subjection greg was a hell of a lot more entertaining. But we must get the NFUO official involved to turn this threads projection to greg I think or not suchas oh what the hell I will give it an injection if need be.

 

[dezl]

Dezl, you really don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Just stop.

LOL, after i spent all that time disecting this thread thats all you got to say. Also, im not trying to call you out man, nor am i trying to be a jerk. Its not personal once so ever!

I believe that dieselfan is referring to the attempt or progression toward "Clean Diesel Technology" that OEMs and many aftermarket companies are striving to achieve. It's a lot easier for guys who aren't smoking, either because of nitrous or fuel calibration, to completely rid an engine of smoke rather than starting with the heavy smokers that are pouring out black even in the optimum power band.

The uphill battle refers to the greater distance needed to achieve clean running engines over the already clean running engines in use by the manufacturers (even though they use DPFs) or by crews such as the one from Banks.

I have not one problem with Darren or his run. This had all been hashed out in the other thread that is now closed, too bad, it was fun to bash someone else for a change. Darren, good luck to you in your future endeavors. I wish you and the rest of the guys nothing but the best.

Later
Chris

This I understand I thought he was referring to clean dragsters.

I had a late night chat with someone about this "Clean Diesel" technology. I was actually quite amused by these efforts. We were talking about Ford and its efforts. They are using post combustion injections of fuel. Regeneration is separate to itself. The reason behind this, spraying fuel into the cylinder lowers hydrocarbon and particulate matter emmisions. Putting the filter on the exhaust was then added to trap what they can't get rid of. The soot modeling tables attempt to reduce particulate emmisions as much as possible.

I almost pissed myself laughing. So they are fueling it to make the power. and then fueling it to lower the emmisions. 350hp and 6mpg. Makes sense now. I asked about working to increase boost in lower engine speeds to increase volumetric efficiency of the motors. Or possibly Cam profile changes. I was told Boost was old school and post injection is the current technology. What a joke. Move over volumetric efficiency. Here comes fuel tricks.

Ford would rather just slap on a filter and spray some fuel in than spend some time with piston design cam profiles or turbo selection. Injection timing changes are being avoided by some tuning companies because of NOx emissions. Its just craziness I tell you.

LOL, personally I drive and old 12 valve that I put in a 94 f350, which is a crew cab long bed its also lifted on 37's, i think im getting like 14-15mpg, Even though I drive like a bat out of hell. My bro bought an 08 dmax, put a little lift and 35's and drives like my grandmother and hes getting like 12 or 14mpg. I JUST DONT GET IT!

 

[sleepur606]

But they don't even try to help themselves out with improved head porting or manifold design. The DPFs and injection events seem like band-aids to lackluster engine design.

I must agree that OEMs should be looking somewhere other than the First-Aid cabinet. Putting band-aids on everything isn't bright, or a good investment. It's hard to understand why GM, for example, would put so many man hours and investment dollars into developing the LS7 and the LS9(I think?) that will put out massive amounts of power because of the...prepare for scary word...ENGINEERING involved, but they won't spend two minutes to realize that a normal person can't fit their finger between the port wall and the valve guide boss in a Duramax exhaust port.

I know swirl is a big deal with diesel engines, and the bent port/straight port combo on the Duramax produces swirl, but I guarantee there's a better way of doing it than having ports that flow like ass. And the Cummins, with the cast in intake manifold, isn't a whole lot better on the intake side.

Maybe someone should just walk up to the Navistar engine plant and chuck a rock through the window with a note that says, "I removed your crap DPF, and removed the re-gen cycle in the programming. It now runs cleaner, get better MPG, and is a lot more fun. Thanks - Joe Bloe"

It's weird that your average guy can tune his truck to be more powerful, more economical, and less smoky (if he likes that) and the OEMs can only decrease soot so much, and then they need the DPF still. WTF? OEM FTL...

Later
Chris

And yes Darren, it was fun...

 

[cybermrc]

I must agree that OEMs should be looking somewhere other than the First-Aid cabinet. Putting band-aids on everything isn't bright, or a good investment. It's hard to understand why GM, for example, would put so many man hours and investment dollars into developing the LS7 and the LS9(I think?) that will put out massive amounts of power because of the...prepare for scary word...ENGINEERING involved, but they won't spend two minutes to realize that a normal person can't fit their finger between the port wall and the valve guide boss in a Duramax exhaust port.

Initially cheaper to band aid fix a problem than to redesign and retool.

Maybe someone should just walk up to the Navistar engine plant and chuck a rock through the window with a note that says, "I removed your crap DPF, and removed the re-gen cycle in the programming. It now runs cleaner, get better MPG, and is a lot more fun.

It's weird that your average guy can tune his truck to be more powerful, more economical, and less smoky (if he likes that) and the OEMs can only decrease soot so much, and then they need the DPF still. WTF? OEM FTL...

..but just because it doesn't have 'visual' emissions (soot), doesn't mean that it will pass the emissions requirements (NOx levels) set out by big brother; or the gestapo CARB.

 

[2Tone12V]

Well I am the one who posted this thread. Of all the pictures taken at the Atlanta show that my photographer took these were my favorite. I am new here and didn't know it would ruffle so many feathers like it has. For that I give Darren my apologies.

However, the run was outstanding and deserves a :rockwoot:

Diane

Nothing meant towards you madame! Wonderful pics! Just bugging Darren a bit.

 

[sleepur606]

Initially cheaper to band aid fix a problem than to redesign and retool.

..but just because it doesn't have 'visual' emissions (soot), doesn't mean that it will pass the emissions requirements (NOx levels) set out by big brother; or the gestapo CARB.

Why you gotta be all up in my bidness tryin to make me look bad in front the peeps?

I know it's cheaper to band-aid than to fix at first, but the Duramax has gone through four, count 'em 4, generations. There is another one coming in 2010. Will it be fixed by then? Probably not.

And, of course, I know about the visuals not being the only emissions, but when stuff gets tuned for optimum power without puking out smoke, they usually run fairly clean. I'm sure you remember running a Duramax at 18:1 AFR with now smoke, and I'd bet the NOx weren't very bad at all.

My two cents anyway.

Later
Chris