Any expected PPL rule changes for 2017

kjpcummins said:
The hamiton block will not reduce hp/dollar. It's just a stock block without coolant passages. A few small changes could have reduced/hp but not with what he is currently offereing.
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Those cooling passages are the reason blocks split, and part of the reason deck plates are used.

kjpcummins said:
Steel blocks break crankshafts. Ntpa allows billet steel/aluminum and recast blocks in their superstock classes. Ppl does allow any engine any hood so it's up to you to pick an engine you can keep together.
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Every color engine has had major block failure multiple times in that class, with the exception of the 903.

I've got some experience with a billet steel block, and have had less crankshaft issues with it than the cast block.
 
9724VF350 said:
Those cooling passages are the reason blocks split, and part of the reason deck plates are used.



Every color engine has had major block failure multiple times in that class, with the exception of the 903.

I've got some experience with a billet steel block, and have had less crankshaft issues with it than the cast block.
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A stock 6.7 block with a deck plate is cheaper than that block.

You can say the same for every tractor class there is. So does that mean every class needs aftermarket blocks. But if ppl is going to allow a aftermarket block or head it shouldn't be limited to cast like it is now. You should have a choice. Because cast heads cost the same as a billet head with the same performance.but the recast won't last as long.
 
kjpcummins said:
A stock 6.7 block with a deck plate is cheaper than that block.
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A stock block, filling it, drilling and tapping main and head studs, boring the cam tunnel, the deck plate, machine work, the price increase of longer head studs, and custom sleeves is less than $3900?
 
9724VF350 said:
A stock block, filling it, drilling and tapping main and head studs, boring the cam tunnel, the deck plate, machine work, the price increase of longer head studs, and custom sleeves is less than $3900?
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My figure comes out less than that and the deck block will be stronger than hamilton stock block.
 
kjpcummins said:
My figure comes out less than that and the deck block will be stronger than hamilton stock block.
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And you've already done this for this price or is this a estimate? I've done this. With my own hands. Not a Cummins, but a comparable engine that would be the same amount of materials and labor.
 
9724VF350 said:
And you've already done this for this price or is this a estimate? I've done this. With my own hands. Not a Cummins, but a comparable engine that would be the same amount of materials and labor.
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Based on figures I have actually payed for on a cummins.
 
kjpcummins said:
A stock 6.7 block with a deck plate is cheaper than that block.

You can say the same for every tractor class there is. So does that mean every class needs aftermarket blocks. But if ppl is going to allow a aftermarket block or head it shouldn't be limited to cast like it is now. You should have a choice. Because cast heads cost the same as a billet head with the same performance.but the recast won't last as long.
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The only way you could even get close is if you had every machine needed to do the work and didn't count any of your time. Machine work isn't cheap.
 
I would also like to point out the current hamilton blocks still need line bored and bushings install as they are only installed on 1 and 7. So that block you guys act like is such a great deal just got more expensive.
 
Well what do you think it cost to have done what you listed. Those numbers are from three of the local shops that do tractor pulling blocks. The only way a stock block cost more is if you are paying a high price for the block and paying someone to fill the block for you. From what I've seen shops way overcharge for filling a block because they don't want to do it.
 
kjpcummins said:
Well what do you think it cost to have done what you listed. Those numbers are from three of the local shops that do tractor pulling blocks. The only way a stock block cost more is if you are paying a high price for the block and paying someone to fill the block for you. From what I've seen shops way overcharge for filling a block because they don't want to do it.
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So I can purchase a 6.7 block and have a deck plate and sleeves for less then 3900? That included line bore and cam
Bushings ? With me filling it correct. That seems like a pretty good deal
 
You're going to have in excess of 5k in doing that, including the stock block you start with is worth 1k. I forgot to mention that the stock block is going to need tanked, magnafluxed, and linebored.

I call BS on a stock block being stronger. Hamilton's is one solid chunk of cast iron from the main webs to the block. The Hamilton block could very well eliminate the need for a girdle, and even eliminate the weak spot after the girdle is installed, as in where Lavon split his. You could very likely machine the block out for wider 4 bolt main caps, and run your studs up further into the block since it is now solid.

On the tractor block issue. As far as I'm concerned all divisions of NTPA and PPL should be permitted whatever dimensionally correct (including the additional height allowed with the use of a deck plate on a stock block) replica of a block that their class permits them to run. Classes that have head restrictions should have similar wording pertaining to the head.

Whether they need it or want it is up to them.
 
Stock and hamilton block would both need to be line bored when installing a girdle so no price difference there. The hamilton block will needed cleaned aswell. You can gets blocks under $1000 actually on here from Mark Nixon which had some for $750. Cam tunnel $500 seems standard. Some charge $500-750 to drill/tap main and head studs to 14mm. Sleeves vary alittle depending on who you get them alot cheaper if you order them direct. Looks like a few places charge fairly high for deck pates aswell. From there it just depends what you local shop charges to bore/hone/deck a block. Around here it's $65hr.
 
The Hamilton block could just be line honed, where after removing material out of a used block and bolting a deck plate on it it's going to need bored.


Sleeves are going to cost you a grand, your going to get a extra one or two. I've bought over 600 from Darton, la, and powerbore over the last 20 years.

The Hamilton block will need no more cleaning than what the stock block will once you get it from the machine shop. A couple gallon of brake cleaner.

Plan on spending 2k on the deck plate, doweling, drilling, tapping, fitting it to the block, boring and honing the block.
 
Don't forget longer rods cost considerably more than stock length rods, and you're more likely to find a deal on a set of stock length rods.
 
I don't really have to figure anything it's what I've payed from different shops. It's obvious places local to you charge more. The hamilton block will need a girdle just like a stock block as its the same design and the bottom end work cost doesn't even matter as the cost will be the exact same with either block. I've never payed anywhere near 1k for the flanged sleeves I've used from the same companies you listed. I would be alittle worried about the casting material quality myself with the hamilton block. Those ductile iron sleeves and deck plate will be alot stronger.
 
If I asked you if you actually bought sleeves for this sort of thing would your answer be similar to the answer you gave me earlier when I asked you if you had actually done this or if it was a estimate?

Custom ductile sleeves are over $100 each. If you have any sense your going to get 7 minimum. That's not a place where you want to just run a thin flanged repair liner.
 
9724VF350 said:
If I asked you if you actually bought sleeves for this sort of thing would your answer be similar to the answer you gave me earlier when I asked you if you had actually done this or if it was a estimate?

Custom ductile sleeves are over $100 each. If you have any sense your going to get 7 minimum. That's not a place where you want to just run a thin flanged repair liner.
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$110 each thick wall flanged. I've never bought a set of 7 and not sure why you would need to. I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm making these numbers up out of thin air.
 
9724VF350 said:
Don't forget longer rods cost considerably more than stock length rods, and you're more likely to find a deal on a set of stock length rods.
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This is not always the case, I can buy a new set of longer rods for the same price as new Carrillo. You can't really compare used parts or that's just gonna start a whole new argument.


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08cumminssmoke said:
This is not always the case, I can buy a new set of longer rods for the same price as new Carrillo.
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I'd be a bit nervous about using carrillo's in something of this nature, but that's just preference.

You can't really compare used parts or that's just gonna start a whole new argument.


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Valid
 
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