upgraded ecm for the vp's!

cummins724 said:
According to Chip, the mechanical advance can only move so far before it hits a wall. I asked him if he could modify my pump to get more movement and he said that it couldn't be done. His reason was that the ecm will limit me anyways. Hmmmmmm. Fix the ecm, then maybe we'll have something. Now we're talking!
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Exactly my thoughts one step at a time
 
The easiest way to advance the initial timing on a 24 valve is to move the sensor off the crank and on to the front of the balancer, and off the back on the cam, and mount in on the front of the cam gear.
Then you can adjust the sensors accordingly, remembering that if you move the cam sensor twice as much as the crank.
This will put base timing in to the engine. Now you will need to take timing out of the ECM
Advance the timing on the crank and cam 10, and retard all the base figures in the ecm by 10 , now your back to stock . This in effect gives you 10 more total degrees of timing.
I did a water jetted set of wheel like this 3 years ago for a VP guy , it seemed to work really well. And a set of brackets to hold both sensors
 
COMP461 said:
The easiest way to advance the initial timing on a 24 valve is to move the sensor off the crank and on to the front of the balancer, and off the back on the cam, and mount in on the front of the cam gear.
Then you can adjust the sensors accordingly, remembering that if you move the cam sensor twice as much as the crank.
This will put base timing in to the engine. Now you will need to take timing out of the ECM
Advance the timing on the crank and cam 10, and retard all the base figures in the ecm by 10 , now your back to stock . This in effect gives you 10 more total degrees of timing.
I did a water jetted set of wheel like this 3 years ago for a VP guy , it seemed to work really well. And a set of brackets to hold both sensors
Click to expand...


There is a company doing this right now. The 01-02 dont have the crank sensor so its a bit easier for them. Although they are not doing any ECM work.

VMacKenzie said:
Someone posted a timing map they found for the VP44 once on TDR and as I recall it started at 8 degrees and topped out at 25.
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I'm thinking I can have a sensor ring made that bolts to the VP gear and an adjustable bracket for the sensor to sit on the front to f the case. This would allow easy compensation for the mechanical advance of jumping teeth, allowing the ECM to think everything is rainbows and butterflies.
 
roachie said:
There is a company doing this right now. The 01-02 dont have the crank sensor so its a bit easier for them. Although they are not doing any ECM work.



I'm thinking I can have a sensor ring made that bolts to the VP gear and an adjustable bracket for the sensor to sit on the front to f the case. This would allow easy compensation for the mechanical advance of jumping teeth, allowing the ECM to think everything is rainbows and butterflies.
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is there going to be room for that sensor in the housing though and would that be able to work with an adjustable pump gear whenever someone decides to produce and sell it? Also if you can get that sensor to work on a gear and if it gets mounted on a adjustable gear would you have to move the sensor as you move the gear or just leave it in one place no matter what kind of mechanical timing is ran?
 
cummin get it said:
is there going to be room for that sensor in the housing though and would that be able to work with an adjustable pump gear whenever someone decides to produce and sell it? Also if you can get that sensor to work on a gear and if it gets mounted on a adjustable gear would you have to move the sensor as you move the gear or just leave it in one place no matter what kind of mechanical timing is ran?
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Room won't be an issue.

The system I have in my mind would require you either used cam keys or moved a tooth at a time. But it would be using a stock gear with a bolt on tone ring. The front cover would be 2 pieces to allow access, the cam sensor would be mounted on a slot that allowed it to be adjusted to match with the gear.


Alternately, and adjustable gear with an incorporated tone ring that advanced with the pump gear and has a fixed sensor could be done.


I think the first option would be cheaper and less complex. Just requires more work when you changing the timing.
 
the adjustable cam gear I sell, has the tone ring on the outer gead, and the cam only moves to change timing .
Image1.jpg



here is what the adjustor looks like, this is a crank trigger off a gas engine ,

cranktrigger.jpg
 
COMP461 said:
the adjustable cam gear I sell, has the tone ring on the outer gead, and the cam only moves to change timing .
Image1.jpg



here is what the adjustor looks like, this is a crank trigger off a gas engine ,

cranktrigger.jpg
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What I see is completely removing the tone ring from the cam. Throw the tone ring on the center of that gear and change the hole to fit the VP.



Here is a question, does the longer slot on the tone ring denote TDC?
 
I'm liking it good ideas being tossed around roachie I sent you a pm, it seems like we need some of these larger companies to realize this is something we want and need and people out there to buy it which there is. So pdi you guys told me you can do an ecm there's a lot guys that want it let's do it.
 
roachie said:
Here is a question, does the longer slot on the tone ring denote TDC?
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I need to know this before I can finish the design.

24VCummns98 said:
I'm liking it good ideas being tossed around roachie I sent you a pm, it seems like we need some of these larger companies to realize this is something we want and need and people out there to buy it which there is. So pdi you guys told me you can do an ecm there's a lot guys that want it let's do it.
Click to expand...

I would like to see something made. Really the thing I'm thinking of will not be needed if a true fully programmable ECM was available.
 
The TDI uses a very similar pump VP37 and its good to 6000+ rpms , I have looked in to this , but in reality unless you’re just trying to make a statement by using a VP44 , the best bet is to start with a CR .
Sure the guys that have VP trucks can’t, but this is about high end, high dollar builds. Kind of like the guys that want to build a VE pump truck and spend big buck to have the highest hp VE
 
You can make power with a vp. You dont need a CR or Ppump. If we had a standalone or just this simple ecm and could mess with some timing i dont see why we couldnt have multiple 9 second trucks.
 
24VCummns98 said:
You can make power with a vp. You dont need a CR or Ppump. If we had a standalone or just this simple ecm and could mess with some timing i dont see why we couldnt have multiple 9 second trucks.
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I just like the insult of someone being beaten by a VP. LOL
 
Doesn't chip offer the Special x pump? Isn't that supposed to be able to add more timing? or have more timing built in?
 
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