03-04 Hot trucks, boost question?

ramctd said:
Well just glancing through the posts it seems like the guys with a TST installed don't have the boost/load limitations that the ones without do.

Like I said on mine it does make a difference with just bare minimal TST setting.
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Give me my pen back, I was drawing that conclusion when you took it. LOL

But why? Is it the duration? I don't think it's totally responsible. Especially with the minimal tweaks to TST level that allow SO much more on the top end. I'll know next week when we do some testing with a TST combo, but without TST magic (whatever that is) the load percentage at best holds steady around 59-69% and at worst plummets to the 30's without it.


chrleb1 said:
With the Flux 5s, i needed the TST. At 1K, i was running Smarty level 7 that was tweaked, EZ, and the TST on 5x5. I had a ton of supply.

When we put the 7.5s in, i could only do 2x2 on the TST. The TST started causing big problems up above 1K. We thought it was a timing issue and Marco was running around in circles trying to tune it out. We ended up finding out it was either a box problem or a harness problem. I think it was taching to fast the box might not have been able to process fast enough.

We then took it off and ran the smarty with ez. The Smarty had no timing in it because we were using the timing of the TST (wasn't adjustable). We dropped a lot of power (1100+ to 1000). Marco then added the timing back in and we were back up to 1080. On the next runs Marco was going to add some more duration to take place of the TST. That is when the crank broke in half. I think it was hitting about 70 without the TST on the Flux 5s, but i had it set for 75 psi. As I added more fuel, it would 75 and then gate hard. At 70 the gates were creeping and needed fuel to push through it.

With the 7.5s, Smarty, and EZ, it was easy to blow past 85 PSI. All of these runs were on a dyno too (less load that the street).
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Eric, thank you for that information. I had hoped a 03-04 guru would be as informative as this. My goals are well under the envelope you are pushing, but frustrating none the less.

I don't believe the hardware myself and others are employing are being fully utilized without a TST on this ECM, for whatever reason. (Gawd, would I like to know that reason.) I don't see this as a Smarty issue, so much as nutty ass ECM.

Case in point: Even with your gargantuan Flux 5 nozzles (What is that, 300 horse sticks?) , and the pizza eatin' Cummins tuner on site, stacking (physically changing ECM signals) was still required to get the pressure, timing, and duration to make the most of them.
 
I would really like to know what the load % is on those two trucks to see if we are comparing apples to apples. If those of Erics and Rebs go past that magical 68% then why, what is it that is letting it go? If it isnt going over 68% then why wont the rest of ours fuel the same at the same load%? If those two dont go over 68 then it would have to have nothing to do at all with that value and it is something else holding it back .

My brothers truck, s466 over a 86mm big brother, flux 7.5's, 2 Floor it Stage 2 pumps, 68% load 80psi boost and sub 800hp power on Smarty alone, sometimes goes all the way down to 500 hp when it gets a wild hair up its ass. When chargers are lit there is no smoke. Those chargers unwastgated like we have it should do well over 100psi and it should be putting down 1000+ hp #'s.
 
It may be for nothing...but I have the parts on my truck now to physically limit MAP. I was out tryingto dial it in for about 35psi max on the sensor when one of Chcago's finest introduced himself to me. LOL
Aparently 60 in a 40 is against the rules up here. LOL
He was cool...no ticket...another cop showed up and we talked trucks while the first cop searched my truck...then they made me punch it when I left so they could see what it would do. LOL

Anyway....when traffic dies down here in a bit I'll get the MAP sensor dialed in and see what happens.

I did notice something earlier though. I had asmall flow control valve in instead of a precise regulator...I got it fairly close and I could make 58psi without the MP8 on and boost fooling....normal max without it is 52 psi.
It's NEVER gone that high without additional fooling.
With the MP8 on though it was still a max of 62psi.

It's waaaaay too early to say we're on to something but I hope to have some info in an hour or so.
 
bdp said:
I would really like to know what the load % is on those two trucks to see if we are comparing apples to apples. If those of Erics and Rebs go past that magical 68% then why, what is it that is letting it go? If it isnt going over 68% then why wont the rest of ours fuel the same at the same load%? If those two dont go over 68 then it would have to have nothing to do at all with that value and it is something else holding it back .

My brothers truck, s466 over a 86mm big brother, flux 7.5's, 2 Floor it Stage 2 pumps, 68% load 80psi boost and sub 800hp power on Smarty alone, sometimes goes all the way down to 500 hp when it gets a wild hair up its ass. When chargers are lit there is no smoke. Those chargers unwastgated like we have it should do well over 100psi and it should be putting down 1000+ hp #'s.
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I think ours were over 68%. Never really checked it though. You need to to add a pressure box and see what happens (something that boost fools).
 
That's where we're hitting our problem. Foolers or not it's 69% load max and a few of us can't get over 62 psi even with big enough turbos to surpass that number. What's odd is me an Amish...totally different injectors, CP3 set-up's and turbos...but we have exactly the same results on the scanner.

My pressure box/fooler of choice is the TS MP8.
 
OK...here's what I'm seeing.

I have the pressure the MAP sensor can see limited to 36psi.

I saw no increase in max boost with my MP8 turned up...still 62psi.

What I did see is an increase in boost with the MP8 on zero from 52psi to 58 psi. Probably from eliminating the need for an electronic fooler.


SOTP it feels stronger...might be in my head....might not...won't know till we scan it tomorrow.
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UNBROKEN said:
OK...here's what I'm seeing.

I have the pressure the MAP sensor can see limited to 36psi.

I saw no increase in max boost with my MP8 turned up...still 62psi.

What I did see is an increase in boost with the MP8 on zero from 52psi to 58 psi. Probably from eliminating the need for an electronic fooler.


SOTP it feels stronger...might be in my head....might not...won't know till we scan it tomorrow.
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There is also more than load in the tuning. Now i would have to check with Marco, but when i tune Dmaxes, they don't go off of load for duration. It'll use the TPS verses Rail pressure for duration tables.

As for needing a TST, i think it is because the trucks with awesome supply still need more duration than the Smarty is giving. I mean we found that out on my truck when we needed to run it at 5x5. As most people know, that is a ton of duration from a TST with huge injectors.

So if you close the top wastegate on your twins setup, you can't see more than 62 psi? Usually these sensor won't read more than 45 psi. I believe they are 3 BAR sensors. I'm not sure why it's not messing with you at an earlier boost level.
 
I don't run any gates. With 62psi at the manifold the primary is making about 25psi.

Bear in mind...I'm running a nearly stock CP3 right now...just has II's Bag of Parts in it while I wait on John from Floor It to finish my big pump.

The MAP sensor deal is just an experiment I did just to see if it was a MAP based issue. Hellmann was able to make me the adaptors needed in short order.....we just wanted to try it out to eliminate that as a possible cause.
I just scanned the truck last Sunday...will scan it again tomorrow so there will be no guessing...it'll either load more or it won't.

I don't wanna change anything in the tuning untill after we scan it...then I'll try a higher duration SW and re-scan.

All we really know right now is that something is screwing something up...just don't know what or where yet.
 
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Richard, where did you get your number to set the regulator to? Have you tried lower psi?
 
I ran a brand new boost gauge out of a port on the regulator.
It read dead on with my other boost gauge untill it hit 36 then it stopped.

I played with it a bit...not too much though. I can tell you this...under 20psi and it wreaks havoc....spits, sputters...don't go at all. LOL
 
I'm sure rail pressure will help you our Richard. Once you put the pump on and then add some duration, your boost will go up. Rail pressure is everything on these trucks.
 
GOT-Torque said:
Ouch...

Any pics?
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These were from Reb's motor. Both cranks broke in exactly the same spot. Different motors, different setups. I never took pics of mine. We were all a little sick when that happened.

CIMG0020.jpg

CIMG0028.jpg

CIMG0027.jpg

CIMG0026.jpg
 
Yea....ummmm......maybe 69% ain't so bad after all. LOL

That looks like it sucked really, really bad.
 
UNBROKEN said:
Yea....ummmm......maybe 69% ain't so bad after all. LOL

That looks like it sucked really, really bad.
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LOL.... yeah. Sucked is putting it mildly. Bit broke everything when it let loose. Crank (duh), one billet rod, cam, block, bent every valve, every pushrod, front timing case, and a piston.
 
Did both engines snap the crank around the 1100 hp level?

Definately a bad day...

Out of curiousity, in the last picture what is that on the camshaft between the two lobes for cylinder #2?
 
No, Reb's made 1,289. His just snapped one day when he was out driving the truck. Mine broke on the dyno. We beat on that motor though. In 2 days it had close to 35 dyno runs and 20+ were above 1K. Not to mention a couple of weeks before that, it was on the dyno for about another 15 runs at 950.

Hopefully we'll have the crank issues figured out here shortly.
 
chrleb1 said:
I'm sure rail pressure will help you our Richard. Once you put the pump on and then add some duration, your boost will go up. Rail pressure is everything on these trucks.
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That is why my face is purple... I have ppe duals feeding slightly larger sticks than Richard. Rail reads fine as wine. My top charger is gated, but we're not into it yet. 30 on primary, Same peak boost. :doh::bang

Guess I'll be raising a few more barns for a TST. :bang
 
Same here with just smarty 62 with tst mid 80s check last night and from what I have seen and heard find the oldest tst u can find for some reason they make the best numbers mine is 1535 serial # with only torque and power levels. I am runnin some big sticks too
 
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