2 stage/dual stage water to air for a daily driver

So what's the consensus on running an air/water with its own cooling system instead of the stock air/air for a street and strip truck? Is it worth it or does a guy have to run multiple a/w coolers to see a gain?
 
RyanMayo said:
The cooling system will NOT lose efficiency if the cooling medium moves too fast. Mike is correct, the air flowing through the core cannot tell how fast the water is moving.

There are some possible issues to look out for however:

The water moves so fast that it causes accelerated erosion of the heat exchanger core.

The water is heated by the pump which moves it.
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This is in fact the right answer.

The anecdotal example above of taking the thermostat out and having an engine overheat is a widely held misunderstanding of what's actually going on there.....and yet it comes up again and again.

Science can't always be explained by misapplying stupid examples....but a lot of people sure try.
 
oh! oh! oh! oh! oh! oh! Mike got one right! I think.... LOL

Shelby, I brought up using the stock coolant system before. The issue was that it would only cool the air to a few degrees over whatever the engine coolant was at, so you'd have to tap into it right after it exited the radiator to get it anywhere near ambient. Also, I'd be afraid the flow wouldn't be anywhere near enough since it's not being pumped directly, it's just kind of being pushed into the a/w circuit at it's own leisure. That and I doubt the stock water pump flows 50gpm anyways. Does it?
 
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nwpadmax said:
This is in fact the right answer.

The anecdotal example above of taking the thermostat out and having an engine overheat is a widely held misunderstanding of what's actually going on there.....and yet it comes up again and again.

Science can't always be explained by misapplying stupid examples....but a lot of people sure try.
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It isn't anywhere near a stupid example. What he nor I or anyone else pointed out was that the system described didn't have the cooling capacity to keep up with the load.

Monkey Fist Rage
 
So are you arguing that you can continue to increase mass flow rate with no diminished ability to transfer the heat energy from one medium to another?
 
madmikeismad said:
oh! oh! oh! oh! oh! oh! Mike got one right! I think.... LOL

Shelby, I brought up using the stock coolant system before. The issue was that it would only cool the air to a few degrees over whatever the engine coolant was at, so you'd have to tap into it right after it exited the radiator to get it anywhere near ambient. Also, I'd be afraid the flow wouldn't be anywhere near enough since it's not being pumped directly, it's just kind of being pushed into the a/w circuit at it's own leisure. That and I doubt the stock water pump flows 50gpm anyways. Does it?
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No I was asking an air/water with its own radiator and separate loop vs the stock air/air on our trucks. If I ran an air/water I could use all v-bands on my piping and not have to worry about blowing boots, providing I had enough room to allow it to move with engine. Plus the piping would be much shorter.
 
91shelbydaytona said:
No I was asking an air/water with its own radiator and separate loop vs the stock air/air on our trucks. If I ran an air/water I could use all v-bands on my piping and not have to worry about blowing boots, providing I had enough room to allow it to move with engine. Plus the piping would be much shorter.
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Holy crap, I'm sorry. I don't know how I mis-read that. I went with the w/a setup for shorter piping, (Hopefully) faster spool for the secondary with the denser air out of the primary, resuliting in overall faster spool times, and the lower pressure drop that you get with w/a over a/a. I'm hoping all this with the right timing/fuel will make it spool like it's my birthday. I dream of burnouts at idle... LOL
 
Hurley said:
So are you arguing that you can continue to increase mass flow rate with no diminished ability to transfer the heat energy from one medium to another?
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Correct, within limits (i.e., subsonic speeds LOL)

We're really talking about heat transfer coefficient, materials of construction, and overall design, yes?

Velocity gets you to Reynolds numbers and from there you can figure a lot.

Heat transfer theory & practice hasn't changed in a loooooooooooooooong time.

My wife is a PE ME, works with this kind of thing on a daily basis.
 
nwpadmax said:
Correct, within limits (i.e., subsonic speeds LOL)

We're really talking about heat transfer coefficient, materials of construction, and overall design, yes?

Velocity gets you to Reynolds numbers and from there you can figure a lot.

Heat transfer theory & practice hasn't changed in a loooooooooooooooong time.

My wife is a PE ME, works with this kind of thing on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

Well, you would understand that what I am after is what I think, best described as enthalpy vs time. How long the temperature fields need to interact to be affective. I understand that it is a broader question than can be easily answered, but like I said, I'm curious why an aftermarket installation centers around flow rate and OE systems rely on regulation.
I suspect this is due to target outlet air charge temps and packaging constraint on both parts IMO. Does this sound correct?

Monkey Fist Rage
 
The Heat transfer math stuff is as of yet beyond my scope of education, however I will say that the engineer at bell intercooler know as Gerhart is a big fan of flow and lots of it.
 
madmikeismad said:
Holy crap, I'm sorry. I don't know how I mis-read that. I went with the w/a setup for shorter piping, (Hopefully) faster spool for the secondary with the denser air out of the primary, resuliting in overall faster spool times, and the lower pressure drop that you get with w/a over a/a. I'm hoping all this with the right timing/fuel will make it spool like it's my birthday. I dream of burnouts at idle... LOL
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Are you running your a/w between stages and after the secondary? Im curious to see how this works for you.
 
Todd W said:
The Heat transfer math stuff is as of yet beyond my scope of education, however I will say that the engineer at bell intercooler know as Gerhart is a big fan of flow and lots of it.
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I know. That math sucks. It's the fancy kind that uses both letters and numbers. Screw that. LOL
 
Removing a properly functioning thermostat will absolutely reduce the max cooling potential in the case of a Cummins. An internet cookie to the first to figure out why.
 
Joesixpack said:
Removing a properly functioning thermostat will absolutely reduce the max cooling potential in the case of a Cummins. An internet cookie to the first to figure out why.
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I knew you were lurking.

Which engine?

Monkey Fist Rage
 
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