Air to water inercooler question...

Kman9090 said:
So some say it's worth it and some say it's not is basically where we are stuck?
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Look, here's how to do this:

You need to know a bunch of things:

You need to know your compressor outlet temps at full boost. Say like 400+F on a big single.

Then you have to know how much temperature change there is coming out of your stock intercooler, at low speeds. Say it's 200F.

Now you put an an air-water unit. Compressor discharge temps do not change. Measure the intercooler outlet or manifold temps.

If they are in the same ballpark, you have achieved nothing but spend money.

If you are making 100F or lower charge temps with the A/W you are going in the right direction and power should increase. How much is dependent on the whole system setup.

Note also that you should be looking at pressure drops as well if you want the entire picture.

So for all the people who say they don't work, if you don't have this kind of info, you're kinda poking in the dark.
 
2Tone12V said:
He dont run one. Hes talking out his a$$:hehe: The coolers I sell (pictured) have 4" inlets and outlets. By the way SmokinBillyGoat, your truck is one of my favorites out there. Dont know why. But that thing is sweet.
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Thanks man!...We have a lot of fun out of it!
 
Here's some data to think about.

A couple years ago I was watching manifold temps while driving the truck to the dyno.

It was about 50 F out and at 60 MPH it would be very difficult to get the manifold temps up over 65F at WOT up a long hill in the big tune.

Sitting on the dyno with a bigass fan: 200F+ intake temps. Every run was adding 10-15F.

How much it drops while going down the track, I don't know yet. I should have live logging happening here soon and we'll see what we got.
 
Maybe instead of the $100, you go punch sleddy in his man business and get it on video, just like the girl on what happens in vegas!
 
SmokingBillygoat, sorry for the stupid question, but is your truck twinned or single?
 
zstroken said:
Maybe instead of the $100, you go punch sleddy in his man business and get it on video, just like the girl on what happens in vegas!
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I would do that for you, if he didn't essentially live in the neighborhood, because after he recovered, there would be a revenge video, and it would be worse.

Don't screw with old guys. Treachery and experience wins every time.
 
There is a salt that you can use that is SAFE on aluminum. You should be able to get water temps down to 15*F with it.
 
nwpadmax said:
Proven peformance??? :hehe:

Who have you beat? At what national-level pull?

And regarding your total lack of knowledge about glycol solutions, basically everything you say should go through one ear and out the other. Really, your misinformation is of epic proportion. :doh:

And I find it totally hilarious, that you can't see the fact that if you are not melting your ice, you're not removing heat. It's rather obvious. It's called heat TRANSFER for a reason.


You must be smoking a heck of a lot of dope.
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I guess in Canada, maybe the relative temp was 30? Or maybe that was 70 degrees C?
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With out getting to involved in this....he hasn't beat alot of people. In 2007 when he was bragging out his setup and truck I challanged him to a little pull off...he didn't want to. Never did get to pull against the truck. He actually pulls in the class down from me (sold my black GMC but are currently building another one ready for the upcomming season). Anyway, in that class...basically its a 2.6" class only they have chargers up to 2.9" or something. After being at MANY pulls in the south, taking my truck down there(flopping it on its face at indy last year (Maybe I should have had an IC trying to pull with a single*bdh*) I honestly believe that all the trucks up here are way under powered compared to down there.

As far as the relative temp goes...he was right...it does get warm up here (our climate here in Southern ontario is identical to Indiana with a little more snow come winter because of the great lakes)

so with all this being said....lets see some pics of the truck Seeker or better yet a video or something with it pulling as I have yet to see pull either. Since the first time I saw you on here you have braged out almost everything you do...the finest pull truck suspension tuner ever, having the most power full VE truck there is and now the IC stuff. Funny thing is it was about 2001 maybe that I last saw you pull and that was with your Super Stock Gasser and back then from what I remember guys like Dale,Ralph, Whitelaw and others were well ahead of you....that could have been the Ford thing though and the reason you started thinking CUMMINS:cheer:


I have never said I know everything, nor will I ever. BUT what I do know is that in the past I have put together some crazy stuff and at least backed it up in detail on forums like this with pictures so people know I am not talking out my ass and then I have also backed it all up with Video's....search my name on U-Tube and pretty well every pull I have done is on there...even my flop at Indy.

Well, I am sure this is going to stir the pot and it probably could have been posted somewhere else but seeing the topic came up.......:stab:

RyanB
 
I know, I didn't know I was gonna get everyone's panties in a bunch! HAHA
 
Well I'm not here to trash people either, but when bad information goes out, I feel the need to put a stop to it.

Look, the pro-mod and outlaw gasser drag cars are making insane horsepower and many use A/W units and I think they're definitely making it work. And IMO they are WAY ahead of us in the data gathering/logging process. And information in this case, is literally, power!

Increasing charge density is what we are all trying to do. Whether you do it via temperature or pressure or both, this is not a principle that will ever go away.

However, like I said before, you cannot claim the principle is flawed, only the implementation can be flawed.

This is why I'm saying you MUST get data on intake T and P to see where you're at and see what you need to change before making a call.

We want the heat OUT of the air. That means we have to put it somewhere else. Simple principle really.
 
seeker1056 said:
by the way - if any of you nay sayers got a better workin system (which obviously none of you has by the posts on this thread) - please to show us - I would love to have a few more ponies and will switch to your system the minute you show me
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Guess I need to scrap my setup and buy some tiny school bus parts,Sure would save on the ice bill :bang
 
well ryan welcome to the sandbox brigade - you fit right in apparrently

so to answer your comments without sandboxin you or puttin you down, cuz I happen to be a person of integrity - I will say the following:

seems i recall you sayin you would come up this way but aint seen hide nor hair of you and when i asked if you would run Pro Street this year you declined - still have your emails sayin so

and as to not runnin against your old truck how does a street truck like mine was at the time (2 years ago) run against a promod like yours was with any kind of hope of winning? - what was your point in askin for a match?.

If memory serves you dont even own a truck at the moment, and my single 66 charger aint no match for your buddies promod your workin on, so again - whats your point??


i aint never claimed to any powerful Ve (matter of fact I take great pains to tell everyone it makes about 350hp) but we be wishin an hopin we do well again this year - as we did finish usually 1-3' behind the best P-pump truck in the class last year who claims to be dynoed at 800 hp, and we did so every time out, so the ol VE is doin sumthin right - and I do beleive his wife videoed a run or two)


suspension - I dont recall sayin I was any kinda guru (thats your statement)but takin a 400,000 km bone stock motor and juicin it up a little, and puttin it a truck that weighs about 2500 lbs lite without the yard and a half of gravel in the box, , aint enough to make the truck do didly against a built truck hp wise, so bein within 1-5' of the winner every time out says my suspension does work and well - so just maybe I do know more than a little about settin up a truck to pull

as to my water air setup - it flat out works - period - dont give a dam wether or not any one beleives it.
400+ degrees down to slightly above ambient or less than ambient with ice is what???? makin 5-6 psi more boost is what? makin less egts is what?
What it isnt is fantasy and apparrently by this threads posted here - is the only successfully working water ice setup in the thread



Ryan - you dont know me from ****, and watchin my old superstock "once or twice" - a truck which was almost always in the top five by the way, dont make you any kind of authority on me or my abilities and yup - I surely did take five years off of pullin to pay for my kids to go to university - just a wee bit more important than truck pulling

Ryan my friend - git your buddies truck or better yet a truck of your own, built for a class we both run bein Pro-Street and bring it on - win lose or draw - at least you will have experience to yap about - not unfounded opinion

and you will also be able to "see" in person my water air setup amoung other things

hell that goes for anyone - anyone want proof my stuff works or doesnt as the case may be - come on down - I'll buy the beer, fire up the barby after the pull, make sure you get through tech, and see just what we each got - on the track

and then we wil have a few more beers n shoot the **** till its time to go home
 
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nwpadmax said:
Well I'm not here to trash people either, but when bad information goes out, I feel the need to put a stop to it.

Look, the pro-mod and outlaw gasser drag cars are making insane horsepower and many use A/W units and I think they're definitely making it work. And IMO they are WAY ahead of us in the data gathering/logging process. And information in this case, is literally, power!

Increasing charge density is what we are all trying to do. Whether you do it via temperature or pressure or both, this is not a principle that will ever go away.

However, like I said before, you cannot claim the principle is flawed, only the implementation can be flawed.

This is why I'm saying you MUST get data on intake T and P to see where you're at and see what you need to change before making a call.

We want the heat OUT of the air. That means we have to put it somewhere else. Simple principle really.
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i plan on doing this.....im going to get a few IAT gauges (before and after the cooler), along with an extra boost gauge, and do some runs with my truck and see what kind of EGTs i got before and after the installation of the cooler.....
 
seeker1056 said:
well ryan welcome to the sandbox brigade - you fit right in apparrently

seems i recall you sayin you would come up this way but aint seen hide nor hair of you and when i asked if you would run Pro Street this year you declined - still have your emails sayin so

and as to not runnin against your old truck how does a street truck like mine was at the time (2 years ago) run against a promod like yours was with any kind of hope of winning? - what was your point in askin for a match?.

If memory serves you dont even own a truck at the moment, and my single 66 charger aint no match for your buddies promod your workin on, so again - whats your point??

Ryan - you dont know me from ****, and watchin my old superstock "once or twice" - a truck which was almost always in the top five by the way, dont make you any kind of authority on me or my abilities and yup - I surely did take five years off of pullin to pay for my kids to go to university - just a wee bit more important than truck pulling

Ryan my friend - git your buddies truck or better yet a truck of your own, built for a class we both run bein Pro-Street and bring it on - win lose or draw - at least you will have experience to yap about - not unfounded opinion
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Sorry guys for leading this post astray- Just going may my final points on this all and then get back on subject.

Seeker- Don't jump to conclusions about me only watching your truck 2 times....I watched every pull you did from 2000-2001 and I know this because I flaged you down every time. I flagged for great lakes at every one of there pulls that had the Super Stocks and I also remember talking to you at Lindsay or Peterborough about the Super Stock I was building.

FYI- In 06 when the topic came up about the little pulling match...my truck was a total street truck running a 66 also...wasn't untill mid August that it had the twins and other major mods.

As for me not having a truck...actually have 2 of them and my brother and I are in 50/50 on both so again...don't jump to conclusions. The one that will be ready for this year was orignally 2 months ago (when you emailed me about PSD) going to be able to run in both classes but that went out the window when we put in the solid rear suspension. It is still going to have a 2.8" single and run without water and run against the high HP/reving twin guys up here just to see if a certain theory of mine is correct!!!!!


Now...back on Topic.

For a total track truck...in theory I would think that running straight freezing cold water thru the A/W intercooler from a cooler filled with water/ice and returning back in to it warmed up would give you the most possible gains rather than using the type of heat exchanger mentioned above. My reasoning behind this is that in theory the heat exchanger would work...everything is happening so fast for that short 30 seconds or so that there wouldn't be enough time for the heat to transfer back into the cold water in the cooler there for not being able to cool down whats in the system. so there for I believe that the normal system that most are running is the best setup for the pulling application.

I believe that the heat exchanger thing would work...on a street truck possibly but deffinatly in a Semi or Marine setup and thats probably why you see these setups in those scenario's.

Now, one other question that I would like to know because I have never run one of these systems.

After a pull...what would the temp of the water in the cooler be? cool, warm, hot?

I do know that the other week on a certain dyno run 20 lbs of ice was melted in a less than 20 second run but the HP gain was crazy, air temps were in the mid 70's and there were a few other benifits that I heard about and is the reason behind me wanting to look into one of these systems for this truck I/my brother are building right now.

Thanks again...and sorry about all the BS in the upper part of this post!!!!!

Ryan
 
if all the ice is consumed and the water is warm then it has done its job......there is a certain point that the water will reach such a high temperature that you are going to start loosing your efficency but you would have to have a very long sustained run for that to happen.....
 
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