Air to water inercooler question...

[seeker1056]

Hey Ryan

Sorry but in my old age I really dont remeber you- but if you followed me that close you would know I finished 4th overall two years in a row in points and was 1st in points when i walked away 2/3 of the way thru the season in 04

In any event

My offer still stands - bring any and all trucks to one of our pulls - pro street or pro mod

We would love to feed yall beer n shoot the **** after a good hook

Ryan - to answer your question - I do drive my truck winter n summer - hence the glycol two stage sytem

how many bags of ice fits in a cooler

yes there is hardly any left after a couple hard pulls - cuz we usually do got to make two hooks at most pulls last year cuz there werent enough trucks to make the show.

Ps Ryan - come on up n introduce yourself - would love to reaquaint myself
there aint never enough pullers around here

 

[nwpadmax]

After a pull...what would the temp of the water in the cooler be? cool, warm, hot?

I do know that the other week on a certain dyno run 20 lbs of ice was melted in a less than 20 second run but the HP gain was crazy, air temps were in the mid 70's and there were a few other benifits that I heard about and is the reason behind me wanting to look into one of these systems for this truck I/my brother are building right now.

Ryan

Ryan-

From what I gather from the outlaw gasser guys, you need to heavily recirculate the water...meaning not a dinky 2 or 3 gpm pump, something more like 20 gpm+++. Make sure the return water contacts the ice (not just dropping back into the bottom of the reservoir like a turd). Use large hose.

Don't use a heat exchanger, that is only for street vehicles.

The one guy I was talking to would run 450F compressor outlet temps and could hold 50-60F manifold temps down the track. So to answer your question I think the water temp came up from say 40 degrees to 60 degrees or so. But they had a good sized tank and a big intercooler. So, how well you insulate everything, and how big your reservoir is, and how well you contact the ice, will all add up to how much water temp change you will see.

Also you need to measure the pressure drop across your existing intercooler and then compare that to the A/W unit to make sure you didn't add a physical restriction to the system. I think this is where some guys could be making the air cooler but seeing reduced benefits beause the pressure drop has been increased based on the intercooler piping (more bends maybe) and intercooler core (depending on how its made).

On a science level think of it this way:

You have a turbo that will supply X many pounds per minute of 4XXF air (multiplied by the time it takes to make a pass). If you know the specific heat of that quantity of air, then you can calculate how much heat has to be transferred somewhere else to get it down to YY temp. So now you put that amount of heat into A gallons of water at B temperture and boom, out comes the temperature rise of the coolant. The tricky part is, you have to make a guess at the intercooler efficiency to make it come out exact. My wife does this kind of thing all the time since she is an HVAC engineer. This is a small scale air conditioning system with kinda extreme requirements because of the short time period involved.

But I don't think you need it exact. Guess 75% efficient, data log your in and out Ps and Ts, and figure it out as you go.

I would love to have a real strong truck with one of these set up on a load cell dyno. Get some baseline runs with no water in the IC, and then slowly start ramping the temps down with some kind of water chiller, watching the HP/TQ curves as you go. That would tell the story for once and for all.

One thing I have always wondered about, though, is how much of the effect is ruined or reduced by the fact that the air has to go through the head, whose passages are of course hot. Some would say that the air is moving so fast that a boundary layer builds up and therefore most of the air stays cold. But no one has ever shown any kind of data along those lines that I know of. I bet a few people know.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

From what I gather from the outlaw gasser guys, you need to heavily recirculate the water...meaning not a dinky 2 or 3 gpm pump, something more like 20 gpm+++. Make sure the return water contacts the ice (not just dropping back into the bottom of the reservoir like a turd). Use large hose.

Don't use a heat exchanger, that is only for street vehicles.

The one guy I was talking to would run 450F compressor outlet temps and could hold 50-60F manifold temps down the track. So to answer your question I think the water temp came up from say 40 degrees to 60 degrees or so. But they had a good sized tank and a big intercooler. So, how well you insulate everything, and how big your reservoir is, and how well you contact the ice, will all add up to how much water temp change you will see

Yep, big water pump with at least a 12AN line and the water returning hits a splatter shield in the water tank, without it the hot water just blows a hole in the ice and intake temps of 60 degrees through the traps via data logger.

Jim

 

[JOHNBOY]

Ryan-

From what I gather from the outlaw gasser guys, you need to heavily recirculate the water...meaning not a dinky 2 or 3 gpm pump, something more like 20 gpm+++. Make sure the return water contacts the ice (not just dropping back into the bottom of the reservoir like a turd). Use large hose.

Don't use a heat exchanger, that is only for street vehicles.

The one guy I was talking to would run 450F compressor outlet temps and could hold 50-60F manifold temps down the track. So to answer your question I think the water temp came up from say 40 degrees to 60 degrees or so. But they had a good sized tank and a big intercooler. So, how well you insulate everything, and how big your reservoir is, and how well you contact the ice, will all add up to how much water temp change you will see.

Also you need to measure the pressure drop across your existing intercooler and then compare that to the A/W unit to make sure you didn't add a physical restriction to the system. I think this is where some guys could be making the air cooler but seeing reduced benefits beause the pressure drop has been increased based on the intercooler piping (more bends maybe) and intercooler core (depending on how its made).

On a science level think of it this way:

You have a turbo that will supply X many pounds per minute of 4XXF air (multiplied by the time it takes to make a pass). If you know the specific heat of that quantity of air, then you can calculate how much heat has to be transferred somewhere else to get it down to YY temp. So now you put that amount of heat into A gallons of water at B temperture and boom, out comes the temperature rise of the coolant. The tricky part is, you have to make a guess at the intercooler efficiency to make it come out exact. My wife does this kind of thing all the time since she is an HVAC engineer. This is a small scale air conditioning system with kinda extreme requirements because of the short time period involved.

But I don't think you need it exact. Guess 75% efficient, data log your in and out Ps and Ts, and figure it out as you go.

I would love to have a real strong truck with one of these set up on a load cell dyno. Get some baseline runs with no water in the IC, and then slowly start ramping the temps down with some kind of water chiller, watching the HP/TQ curves as you go. That would tell the story for once and for all.

One thing I have always wondered about, though, is how much of the effect is ruined or reduced by the fact that the air has to go through the head, whose passages are of course hot. Some would say that the air is moving so fast that a boundary layer builds up and therefore most of the air stays cold. But no one has ever shown any kind of data along those lines that I know of. I bet a few people know.

Yep, big water pump with at least a 12AN line and the water returning hits a splatter shield in the water tank, without it the hot water just blows a hole in the ice and intake temps of 60 degrees through the traps via data logger.

Jim

That is awesome info guys!:rockwoot: