Bearings Trashed FI ETR 72 turbo

Jordan Koehn said:
Enough people have had good luck with FI that I'd be thinking it'd be something on my end before suspecting them of a bad turbo.
I wasn't complaining about them when I composed this thread. And that turbo was awesome before it went.

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Yes we now have over 150 ETR units out and running....only 3 failures so far out of the 150+. 1 being yours due to what looks like oil issue. One of Taylor's customers which we will be checking today as it arrives today and another was someones motor let go of a essential part that lunched the turbine wheel on exit.
 
Stanton said:
Compressor wheel is rotating at say 150krpm generating say 2500mbar manifold absolute, so the wheel is working hard. If you encounter a split boost hose and your manifold pressure drops, so too does the resistant force on the compressor wheel, so with the same work being generated in the turbine housing the shaft speed now rockets. Or even if manifold pressure drops to just 2000mbar, ecu will still target 2500mbar and so shaft speed increases as the system chases 2500mbar, and so overspeed occurs.

Im not saying that's the case here, but this can and does happen.
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In theory that makes sense. But How can you run a Turbo engine that hard with a boost leak of that size.

from phone
 
I got my turbo back Friday. I've been over almost every suggestion on what made my turbo go kaput.

I can't find anything wrong. I guess I'm going to contact Jose, tell him so and see what he thinks about trying it out.

I hate to even start the truck without finding the reason why the turbo went in the first place but my truck has got to run.


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ClamDigger4 said:
In theory that makes sense. But How can you run a Turbo engine that hard with a boost leak of that size.

from phone
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How can't you?

The figures are arbitrary but the theory is proven in practice.

It happened to me on a dyno on Friday with a gasoline engine. turbo didn't fail, but a recirc valve failed, causing boost to drop and turbo went from 170KRpm to 186KRpm. Not much of a rise you may think but we run these turbochargers on the wrong side of overspeed as it is...manufacturer's suggestion is 168Krpm!

Point is if we didn't have a turbocharger speed sensor in place then we would have screwed things up pretty quick.
 
Stanton said:
How can't you?

The figures are arbitrary but the theory is proven in practice.

It happened to me on a dyno on Friday with a gasoline engine. turbo didn't fail, but a recirc valve failed, causing boost to drop and turbo went from 170KRpm to 186KRpm. Not much of a rise you may think but we run these turbochargers on the wrong side of overspeed as it is...manufacturer's suggestion is 168Krpm!

Point is if we didn't have a turbocharger speed sensor in place then we would have screwed things up pretty quick.
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Was this speed increase just a momentary blip?

Because if you also follow through with your theory, if there's a sizable leak, the mass flow through the engine will drop, and the power coming from the turbine should drop as well, given sufficient time.
 
It was only momentary because we had a shut down in place for high AIT...and since the recirc valve failed and bypassed charge air to the intake side. If the cell hadn't **** down then the ecu would have tried to maintain target manifold pressure.....within the limits of the hardware of course. In this instance torque and therefore work achieved at the turbine would be maintained. And of course, its all relative....size of the pressure loss versus turbo efficiency.

But again, this isn't just a theory, this can and does happen.
 
I hear ya, but you have to understand that in most highly modded diesel trucks there is no ECU, and the ones that have one aren't using them to control boost.
 
Really?! Things are so much better with an ECU!!
So common rail isn't that popular with you guys?

In any case the situation would still be the same with mechanical boost control.
 
Watch out for the dinosaurs, they still roam freely here, with reckless abandon. Common rail is coming along but the fuel delivery still isn't quite there....yet.

Very few people want/need any form of boost control....you see them on twin kits mostly.

There are a lot of single chargers that are being operated at > 5 pressure ratio. This is a competition site!
 
Yeah in some instances simplicity is key and I guess under a small operating window multiple control features aren't required.

That said, Im very keen to understand better at what stage CR development is in the states, with all genres of competition stuff. Im guessing its widespread on commercial and OEM level? I work closely with Cummins on some emissions projects so understand their level.
anyway sorry for the off topic!
 
Stanton is just expressing the same idea as to why pop off valves are bad to control boost... and thats a wrll documented concept.
 
Lostnwalmart said:
Stanton is just expressing the same idea as to why pop off valves are bad to control boost... and thats a wrll documented concept.
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Oh wrlly? :poke:

However the wording I do agree with the concept.
 
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Cool...not sure what/who Malone is, but judging by the figures the end result is an ECU remap?

Im lining up a wee project for 2013, roughly comprising of a mk4 golf 1.9tdi + hybrid turbocharger of some shape, a supercharger, and some tasty ECU work :)
 
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Stanton said:
Compressor wheel is rotating at say 150krpm generating say 2500mbar manifold absolute, so the wheel is working hard. If you encounter a split boost hose and your manifold pressure drops, so too does the resistant force on the compressor wheel, so with the same work being generated in the turbine housing the shaft speed now rockets. Or even if manifold pressure drops to just 2000mbar, ecu will still target 2500mbar and so shaft speed increases as the system chases 2500mbar, and so overspeed occurs.

Im not saying that's the case here, but this can and does happen.
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TMONEYDIESEL said:
I think you missed the point...
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The point I was trying to illustrate is this....

Jordan Koehn said:
I suppose there might be but none that I know of. Here's a pic of the shaft.

ejuqemyr.jpg


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Is not typical signs of overspeeding. These shops look at turbo failures for a living, so don't expect to teach them to diagnose failures.
 
Stanton said:
Compressor wheel is rotating at say 150krpm generating say 2500mbar manifold absolute, so the wheel is working hard. If you encounter a split boost hose and your manifold pressure drops, so too does the resistant force on the compressor wheel, so with the same work being generated in the turbine housing the shaft speed now rockets. Or even if manifold pressure drops to just 2000mbar, ecu will still target 2500mbar and so shaft speed increases as the system chases 2500mbar, and so overspeed occurs.

Im not saying that's the case here, but this can and does happen.
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I never diagnosed it as overspeed. ..I agreed with oil starvation.
 
How fast is oil supposed to drain out the bottom of the turbo? I got the turbo installed and started the truck without the drain tube attached. The oil gauge reads 75 psi of pressure. A thin stream of oil under 1/8 inch thick dribbles out the drain.

Is that enough? The oil was cold cause the ambient temperature was 40°.

We unhooked the supply hose and put a rubber tipped air nozzle up to the inlet. 130 psi of air pressure and the air came out the bottom at maybe 25 psi. I could almost completely stop the air coming out but not quite.

Is this normal? I have no idea how much oil flows out the drain.

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