Garrett 3582 - GT vs GTX?

Big Blue24 said:
You will regret going with the 4202R in about 6 months when you want more than 650 HP.

If you have the cash, you'll probably end up going back with a 4718 and the whole time asking why you didn't just get it to begin with.... LOL


Good luck, it's your truck and your choice.
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Word.
 
commtrd said:
Pull the bend out of a river! Never heard that one before... Wow 900 with a 3782/4508!
Would I be better off with the GTX wheel on the secondary (3582) or the GT wheel OK? I would prefer the GT wheel as I hear the 11-blade GTX are dead silent. So here's my final plan and check it for any suggestions: GT3582R over GT4202R. Hamilton 178/208 cam for towing and DD. 40 to 50 mm external gate on a steed. 10mm stroker CP3 from H & S or Shane. CAC from Hellmann. And I already have the BBi Stage 1s. Fleece coolant bypass have but not installed yet. Need a couple more gauges too. Also head studs / springs.

All the other stuff (entire drivetrain) has already been done. When its all finished should be an extremely strong DD/tow rig that will be a blast to drive on the street and get good mileage. Definitely appreciate the advice on the 3582 as I have really been struggling trying to figure out the final configuration for the twins. I am in line for Pat at Big Twin Diesel to build up the twin set. GT wheels on both compressors OK?
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I wouldn't bother with the gtx wheel for your goals. In a twin set you won't use the high pressure ratio where the gtx wheel really shines. It does move more air, but I doubt you would notice it in a set like you are describing. The 4202r is a nice turbo but I don't think I would bother going ball bearing on it. that small of a big guy will light very fast. And your initial spool is a result of the small guy anyway. If you are looking for huge bottom end I would lean more towards the gt 35 over the 37. And really if all you want is 600 hp then the 35 is superior IMO. both will support the HP goal but you will get to 600 much quicker with the 35.

Also there are 2 versions of the 3582 I am sure you are aware. I would go for the one with the ported shroud compressor housing. Also I would get a t4 manifold and get the 3582 t4 turbine housing as it really opens up future possibilities. Go for the .82 a/r on the turbine housing as well.
 
Thanks for the tips on the 3582. I had read that the size difference of the 4718 vs. the 3582 just wouldn't work very well especially for the hp I am looking for. Then I thought about the 4508 pretty seriously but Tom at Turbo Re-Source said he recommended the 4202 as being really well suited for a smaller set of towing twins. And I know that with the fuel from the BBi Stage 1s and the 10mm stroker pump I am getting those turbos will be spooling up very fast. The truck will work really well like that. I would like to be able to tow comfortably over 20000 with the truck.

The 4202 looks like it can do well over 90 lbs/minute and at the pressure ratios I think it will be running with the cam I want I will have the powerband placed down low and I very rarely ever get up over 2800 rpm anyway. Ought to be a really fun DD and real capable tow rig when needed. 600+ hp is not a wimpy truck.
 
I know this is CompD and everyone thinks everyone will always want more, and plenty of times that is correct, but building a truck that is ready for the next "what if" doesn't always work.

I know if I used a GT47 as my primary I wouldn't be very happy at 7K feet on a 85 deg day and 2/3 throttle, and that's why I would want twins. So I can see why the OP is leery of going too big. It's far easier to make a hot 600 for a quick **** n git, than it is to spool a big primary on minimal fuel with a big load at low rpms. Size the turbos for how you use it 90% of the time.
 
commtrd said:
Thanks for the tips on the 3582. I had read that the size difference of the 4718 vs. the 3582 just wouldn't work very well especially for the hp I am looking for. Then I thought about the 4508 pretty seriously but Tom at Turbo Re-Source said he recommended the 4202 as being really well suited for a smaller set of towing twins. And I know that with the fuel from the BBi Stage 1s and the 10mm stroker pump I am getting those turbos will be spooling up very fast. The truck will work really well like that. I would like to be able to tow comfortably over 20000 with the truck.

The 4202 looks like it can do well over 90 lbs/minute and at the pressure ratios I think it will be running with the cam I want I will have the powerband placed down low and I very rarely ever get up over 2800 rpm anyway. Ought to be a really fun DD and real capable tow rig when needed. 600+ hp is not a wimpy truck.
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I buy everything I can from Tom. He is definately one of my favorite vendors. I ran a gt4208 he made for me with a stocker for a while. Towed awesome and ran 11.80's at crappy conditions in salt lake. It was fun towing. for the first time since owning a diesel the egt would climb a bit when starting a hill then the boost came in and the egt dropped while climbing the hill, on a 12V that just doesn't happen with a single, at least not to me.
 
As others have stated, the GTX wheels are probably pointless for your application, being a compound setup. I would expect you to see 30-40 lbs of boost while climbing a grade loaded. I suggest looking at how the maps compare from gt to gtx at about a 2.5 pressure ratio. Probably negligible at best. I do, however, like the ball bearing primary as well, being the duration of time you will be holding an elevated boost number from it. Having the water cooled chra will certainly make it last longer, in my opinion.

I think a T4 manifold is not needed as my truck has zero drive pressure issues with a t3, and I would expect the secondary mounted to the manifold to respond quicker if you keep the velocity up and the heat moving into the turbine wheel. I agree, being on comp d, the typical mindset is to build it to grow as funds become available. However, if the OP keeps his word, a 600 hp limit, he will be happier with the truck if he keeps the turbos sized properly, and not just to please the onlookers.

Very interested how this turns out...
 
Interesting comment on the T3 manifold. Maybe too much worry over drive pressure given the nice external gating and laid-back driving style... ;0) If your truck is at 900 on a T3 that says a lot.

I did intend to go with both chargers being BB for reliability and spool. Mainly because I wanted to stay fairly conservative with fueling and wanting the chargers to be able to cool and clean. And intend to keep this truck many hundreds of thousands of miles.

This project is going to end up working great. There is a lot to be said for good reliability and good mileage at $4 diesel. Can't wait to get those twins hooked up!

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Will post up some more as it moves along. It's gonna be a couple months to get the twins started on fab but gives me some time to get some bucks together and get some more parts.
 
If you were looking for a really fast spooling compound set with a overall hp target of 500hp (me ;) ) at the engine for everyday use how would a gt3082r go? It is a bit miss matched with the small turbine but just wondering with a decent external wastegate to control it and on a compound setup you would hope not to run the compressor into the pressure ratio high enough to upset the balance. Example for the low hp target primary and secondary really only need to be around 2.2 each to get there.
Would it work?
 
Personally I would be leery of the turbine side being possibly just too restrictive. For the 5.9s there may be a practical limit to spool vs just killing the drive pressure, even with a large external gate. Could just use a good single like a GT3782R or a BW 62 FMW with even very moderate fuel and be at 500 hp.
 
Todd W said:
Word.
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Just concerned about a possible mismatch between the GT3582R and a primary as big as the GT4718R. The whole game plan has been based on a target of 600 hp max and use for towing and DDr with good spool and low EGTs. Plus a few very knowledgeable guys have recommended the 4202 under the 3582 as a good set of twins for this hp target and usage.
 
I visited with Pat at Big Twin Diesel today and got the twins formally ordered. Going with my GT3782R over a GT4202R and an external 44mm Tial gate on a pedestal everything V-banded. That should be a really nice setup for DD and towing. Looking for 600 to 650 and that should not be a problem at all.
 
commtrd said:
I visited with Pat at Big Twin Diesel today and got the twins formally ordered. Going with my GT3782R over a GT4202R and an external 44mm Tial gate on a pedestal everything V-banded. That should be a really nice setup for DD and towing. Looking for 600 to 650 and that should not be a problem at all.
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Pat at Big Twin knows his stuff. He is a very knowledgeable turbo guy that tests many options on many different applications. You are in good hands, he recommends and builds set-ups for my customers as well as my racing program.
 
Yep he's da man for Garrett BB twins I think. And the price isn't that much more than a set of BWs with billet wheels either which I thought was surprising. Really looking forward to getting them installed. I told Pat I would pull my turbo to send up there and he said he had a 3782 he would use and when I got the set to send him mine so I don't have to rent a car while truck is down. How cool is that? Like Jeff Garmon insisted on wife and me staying at his house while they rebuilt the transmission. It is really neat to be able to buy from reputable and just plain good people.
 
Should be a good setup. I was going to mention something about them when I was just at his shop but I got side tracked by my engine running!!!
 
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