Hit the 03/04 HP wall

E

Erik@LCD

Lookin' for Traction
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
234
Looks like I verified that the 03/04 trucks have a "wall" as some others have suggested.
With my setup I went 614 with DDP 50's. I went to a set of Flux 2.5's on new style bodies that were all blueprinted and whatnot..I got 624. I then installed the other set of nozzles I got to try (3.5+) and got 653. With the last change, my rail pressure was gonski with my modified stock CP3.
This week I installed a Dragonslayer pump and on the street, the midrange and topend were quite impressive, but normal driving wasn't much different. I did see a significant increase in the upper end RP.
Got on the dyno Friday night and put down 642. WTF, Mate?
Got the scanner on her and played with settings on the Smarty. Did back to back runs to verify RP (fine and holding 27k) and Calculated Load Percentage. This is where the problem lies...Max CL% was 68% as datalogged through the run. This would explain similar power with LESS smoke then before (better, consistent pressure). No rail pop or anything out of the ordinary, just no extra power.
Talked to Bob and he and Marco will be working on this issue when we host them for some tuning in early November.
In the meantime, I will try a TST on Sunday at our dyno day and see if the ECU fooling that it does corrects the issue. If so, we'll have something to shoot for with Marco. Hoping he can do electronically what the TST does physically.
Will post back here.
 
Not that they can't make more, but that, without something physical installed to fool signals to the ecu (like the TST) the ECU won't provide full fueling
 
Oh, I should add that the the runs were at 1270-1310 degrees and with 42lbs of boost, so I am not out of air by any stretch.
 
Erik@LCD said:
Not that they can't make more, but that, without something physical installed to fool signals to the ecu (like the TST) the ECU won't provide full fueling
Click to expand...

You are misinformed.

I made 800 hp on the dyno with a Smarty ONLY set on 7 last weekend. To back that up, ran an 11.53 @ 118.99 @ 7500lbs on Wed. in the exact same setting.
 
I am hardly misinformed. We have seen (as have others) several instances of setups that SHOULD make more power than they do. We have been looking at possible explanations as to why, and the ECU not allowing full loading will not command the fueling as we would like and therefore limits power. This may not be the case on every truck, and that is an issue Marco is trying to figure out. Your 800 is impressive (and for the record, level 7 seems to make the most power on ALOT of trucks), but what is your setup? I would say you have more than just a Smarty...
800 with big twins might be ok, but is it everything it should be?
 
Erik@LCD said:
I am hardly misinformed. We have seen (as have others) several instances of setups that SHOULD make more power than they do. We have been looking at possible explanations as to why, and the ECU not allowing full loading will not command the fueling as we would like and therefore limits power. This may not be the case on every truck, and that is an issue Marco is trying to figure out. Your 800 is impressive (and for the record, level 7 seems to make the most power on ALOT of trucks), but what is your setup? I would say you have more than just a Smarty...
800 with big twins might be ok, but is it everything it should be?
Click to expand...

It made more on 9........

I would say you have more than just a Smarty...
Click to expand...

:what:
 
OK, so you made more on 9. I said many folks do more on 7 as they don't have the supporting mods to do more on 9. Whatever.
I am not looking to be confrontational here, but we do a buttload of testing and have some data to back up this situation. I have no problem with someone offering a different opinion, but without some info on your setup, its a little hard to say if you are comparing apples to apples..
So post up what you were running when you made your 800 and then we can see how it applies to my data.
 
I thought the 03/04 engines were the dyno queens because of the single injection event unlike the 04.5+ trucks with three injection events and seem to max out around 800hp. Unless im confused. A local truck did 793hp with a smarty only its a 03 auto.
 
Your first post basically states that there is a wall of ~650 hp due to the ECU on an 03-04 even with a Smarty and the only way around that is by some ECU fooling with something like a TST. Correct??

I basically said your theory is flawed.

Just like you, I have F1 injectors, turbocharged, modified fuel system and the same ECU.
 
Personally, on a common rail, the numbers look perfectly fine for a truck with a super b special if you are referring to the one in your signature.
 
OK, Not saying that 650 is the wall. Saying that for whatever reason we have seen (again, as have others) that some trucks have an issue where the ECU is not seeing/commanding full load and the fueling suffers.

03/04 trucks do seem to make better power or at least with fewer issues in general. With the addition of another unit like the TST any possible existing issues seem to go away.
Dockboy, are you running a single or twins? What is your fuel system? Single/twin CP3's?
If you don't think its an ECU related issue, than what is your hypothesis? Aside from the lack of load seen in the ECU, what would explain the lack of additional power? Injectors are 3.5's, Fuel pressure and rail pressure are stable and plenty (pulled FP from 27psi to 20psi for the run).
I actually figured that the 03/04 guys that were complaining of this issue were barking up the wrong tree also, like I said, I blamed the lack of increase on a lack of pump. Fixing the pump problem should have generated more power, but it didn't so we went back and looked at the data logs.
 
Correct me if I am wrong....
But besides Greg,We had 2 other 03-04 trucks goes waaaaayyyyy over that wall you state about at our event......Andy

Tim Barber 944hp
Jim Peter 785hp

On Edit.....
Since I am chatting with Lloyd right now on the phone and was just corrected,Tim's truck has been over 1000 on fuel at our fall show last year and has laid down the same number on Dunbar's dyno also at TS.
 
I am not unhappy with the power I have, BUT, since we are always testing, going from small injectors to a 2.5 and then to a 3.5, with plenty of fueling available, low temps and conservative boost numbers, there is more in this truck. There is no reason why, with the addition of a big pump and no other changes, the truck made no extra power. Especially given that the other stock/modded pump was unable to keep up with the demands of the injectors before.
 
This phenomenon you've mentioned..... I believe we've been calling it torque management for years. The curse of the Cummins ECM. 98.5-2009 "The wall".
Sure would be nice to load one closer to 100%. I agree. Imagine how much better a bone stock engine would run with absolutely no mods?
I think I follow what you are saying. If we had "EFI livish" tuning capability, it would be possible to make more power with less modification.
We have seen one break the rpm barrier, but I never heard if max engine load was increased also.?.
 
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