Intake Manifold Design

Greg- are you going to create a fictitious lawyer, exactly like when you created multiple fake screennames on YellowBullet? Lets see, Becky Star and John Preston have already been used, so make sure you don't use those...
 
this, here, is some good entertainment. similar to hamilton cams/lenahan05 pulic discussions of our sword measurements. keep up the good entertainment ladies.
 
Cute thread....

Drag racing is...well...you know...

Racing Engine development...LMAO...how about something that spins over 10k and has to last a while...

Look at a standard MX bike engine if you want to learn about intake and exhaust tuning...lots of tricks there...they make power from 4000 rpm to 11000 rpm...lots more fun than my slow diesel truck too...

Really...if you get a chance to look at the internals of a 450 Thumper especially the head and...you can learn LOTS!!!

Drag racing requires a completely different build tho...
 
Fahlin Racing said:
Anyone give any thought as to how much of a radii can be employed nominally for our air charge entering the runner? I have heard around a 1/2" is stable.
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There is a little known book out there called the "Crane Technical Paper No. 410" I use it all the time!!!!

Lots of information about the flow of fluids!!! It is for industrial applications mostly in steady state flow...however, it can help.

so t answer your question...it depends on the ID of the runner....

r/D of 0.15 is about the limit..

for example,

if the ID of the runner is 2 inches, then the radius of the bell would be 0.3"
 
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hmmm this got me thinking a bit...was currious about how long the intake runner would have to be for the wave to travel from the valve to the end of the runner "AND BACK" if the engine was running at 3000 rpm.

assuming a intake cam duration of oh, lets say 180 degrees...(crank rotation)

also assuming the wave travels at sonic velocity 1100FPS...(in reality it would be slower)

so, crank rotation as the wave is moving is 720-180, or 540 degrees...

3000 RPM, then it takes 0.0005 minutes to rotate the 540 degrees when the valve is closed.

a sonic wave would travel 6.6 inches in that time...

but remember..the wave must travel out and back.....

so, then the runner length coould be as short as 3.3 inches....

hmm kinda explains why Cummins has a large plenum and just runners in the head...
 
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hmmm thenI was thinkin...what is a reasonable port size...

well, looking at an individual port...at 3000 RPM...one port would have to flow 208 CFm on average..peak flow would be closer to to 291 CFM..

so, assumed a air velocity of 12000 Ft/min...

looks like a port runner made of 2" schedule 10 pipe would work...

on a daily driver..1.5" sched 10 pipe would work too as it spends more time at 2000 rpm than 3000 rpm.

a 6000 rpm race motor could use 2.5" sched 10 pipe as runners....assuming enough work is done with the head to use it...
 
oh, one last thing...the log portion...

stock engine would have one made of 3.5" Schedule 10 pipe

race engine would get 4 to 4.5" pipe.
 
Greg, would it not be easier to just go race and back your claims, than get lawyers involved? Prove how smart you are on the track


To anybody sponsoring Greg.... Please don't allow this cancer to continue in the Diesel world! Please stop.............. I can not see it casting anybody's company in a good light to be on his car.

Diesel Freak, When calculating the runner length the .050" numbers are not relevant, but the duration of total open time in degrees factoring for lash and the correct rocker ratio. That is why it is important to buy a cam from somebody that will give you that information. ;)

Lenahan, I see you often refer to phallic symbols in your Freudian slips. It appears to be a fascination..............
 
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Funny Greg talking about slander and lawyers, when on his website for years it said his springs were better than hamilton right on the website. Some of his vendors still havent changed the product description so its still there if someone wanted to take that to a lawyer.
 
Thank you for pointing that out.

Greg, if you are going to live in a glass house, the last thing you want to do is throw stones. You know we could get a bunch of lawyers involved ten ways to Sunday, or we could just meet at a local track. If you have your "Lawyers" send a letter to Will, expect to get a letter in the mail from mine. :)

We could all just take a breath, and not worry about what some people say on a forum that has nothing to do with reality............
 
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Thanks for a reply Diesel Freak, now its seeming to be a more fitting Extreme Engine Tech thread. Hamilton you mentioned a great reply as well, awsome. Everyone arguing with Greg, if any of you race go to Muncie and settle this bickering on the track. He has obviously put the time into his rig as have yourselves regardless of money sums, the proof is in the pudding so go and prove yourself maybe you guys will see a different respect among each other. For now, the chatter is wasting time and space that I am sure the OP wasn't expecting. I can certainly say the diesel performance world is nothing like the early years in any other motorsports that I have read about, eveyrone helped each if they needed it EVEN with engine tuning etc and people got along on and off the tracks. To each is own.

DF, whats your opinion on the whole change in nature of reflection is comparison of N/A & forced induction?
 
What?

Fahlin you may want to do a little digging on Greg. He is all talk and NO ACTION. I have been into diesel performance from 2006. Not long compared to others but have been into performance from the early 80's. How old are you?
 
Hamilton Cams said:
Lenahan, I see you often refer to phallic symbols in your Freudian slips. It appears to be a fascination..............
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Zacky, I found a picture of you on Dell Computers website. I know its an old picture. Personally, I think you should sport the hair highlights again. It was a good look for ya.
 

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TMONEYDIESEL said:
Funny Greg talking about slander and lawyers, when on his website for years it said his springs were better than hamilton right on the website. Some of his vendors still havent changed the product description so its still there if someone wanted to take that to a lawyer.
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If memory serves me, you made such a comment not long ago (on compd) about how "your" springs (common BBC spring) were better than everyone's. You started selling them and they didnt even fit the springs pockets. :hehe: ouch! I loved your explaination to the customer. It doesnt stop there.

In a race to cover up your lack of knowledge to what your even selling, you go buy a product you just previously said is junk, and sell it to the guy to make it right....did I miss anything?

Do I feel a little Manning Motorsport backpeddling coming on? Or just your typical, boring argument everyone is sick of hearing about. Taylor, ill say it for you: "you use valve locks that wont work and will cause failures, anyone who uses those sure has low standards." LOL :clap: Am i right or what?

I apologize to everyone else in this thread for the derail from greg. I wasnt going to say anything. But the sheer coincidence of it all with taylors post, I just couldnt resist. Its like playing cat and mouse.
 
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Fahlin Racing said:
Thanks for a reply Diesel Freak, now its seeming to be a more fitting Extreme Engine Tech thread. Hamilton you mentioned a great reply as well, awsome. Everyone arguing with Greg, if any of you race go to Muncie and settle this bickering on the track. He has obviously put the time into his rig as have yourselves regardless of money sums, the proof is in the pudding so go and prove yourself maybe you guys will see a different respect among each other. For now, the chatter is wasting time and space that I am sure the OP wasn't expecting. I can certainly say the diesel performance world is nothing like the early years in any other motorsports that I have read about, eveyrone helped each if they needed it EVEN with engine tuning etc and people got along on and off the tracks. To each is own.

DF, whats your opinion on the whole change in nature of reflection is comparison of N/A & forced induction?
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Well in all honesty I would be more conserned with valve size opening duration unshrouded curtain area and a matched port cross section for this application forced induction covers up a lot of other issues to the point they dimish to the point they are not worth screwing with. Tune for the first and second order don't worry about anything after that. Or, just smooth out the port and unshrouded the head and cylinder
 
lenahan05 said:
Zacky, I found a picture of you on Dell Computers website. I know its an old picture. Personally, I think you should sport the hair highlights again. It was a good look for ya.
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I have never worked for dell. Is that some kind of a dig at me, or did you randomly download a picture off the internet? I'm not sure your purpose in putting that picture up, but don't let me slow you down. Like I have said, there is always room for trash on the CompD servers, but be careful for Freudian slips.


In a chance to keep this thread alive and on track. An article that really helped me with understanding intake runner function is a ASME publication called "design of a tuned intake manifold.

They map the VE of an engine at different rpm with different manifolds. Their graphs show an increase up to almost 120% of calculated potential. 1000 rpm before the peak and 1000 rpm after the peak VE starts to fall below that of what it would be normally.

Another interesting fact is how they tune each cylinder. It is possible to turn an engine at different RPM and measure the resulting compression in each cylinder to measure the amount of trapped air. Modification can then be made.

Another thing to note in terms of what duration to use, for competition Cummins flat tappet cams, they range anywhere from 260-340 degrees of open time at the valve. Just having a calculated correct length will not take you very far if you start with flawed data. Also, not to pop your bubble, but all of the engineering papers I have read on the subject state that since air is like a spring, there are always resulting pressure pulses that cannot be accounted for, so all of the calculating will get you in the neighborhood and functional testing will take you the rest of the way. If you do get the pressure wave to hit the intake valve at the right RPM, it will magnify the effect if you get the valve off it's seat faster to take advantage of it..........
 
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