Letter to EPA from ATS

I can't believe I just spent all that time reading 14 pages of replies to a letter that may or may not have been written by a business owner who may or may not have intended to throw other people/companies under the bus. I've always been a fan of letting people dig their own grave, so have at it ATS; if this is all untrue, you have nothing to worry about.

Other than that, I have only one thing to say before I go to stop the bleeding from my eyes. As a BANKS employee, I see how some of our advertising comes about. However, I see our advertising as more objective, the test results are listed and, though we want you to buy a Banks product, you're free to choose. If Brand X flows 80 cfm over stock and Banks flows 82, Banks flows more...simple fact. To my knowledge, our advertising and our employees (for the most part) have never attacked another company or thrown someone under the bus. We on the race team try to put our best face out there and hope the rest of the business does the same to better the name of the company and draw in customers, it's just what we do...we're not ordered to, it's personal pride that drives us to be the better man.

To throw someone under the bus is quite possibly the lowest of the low on the list of things that will put you on my bad side, and I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. So, ATS, whether or not this letter was written or mailed, it's damage control time, and you need to take the time to sit down and think, "Okay, the $hit hit the fan, what's next?" Think about what's going on and try to quell the storm that's blowing your way, it's all you can do.

I wish you all the best of luck. I would not wish anyone to lose their business, but practices such as this letter (again, whether real or not) are the types of things that can destroy an industry. It is extremely saddening to me, being so fresh to the community of diesel racing and diesel aftermarket, that things like this can happen.

To all the racers, street drivers, business owners, workers, and everyone else, good luck, and make sure that filter is on tight between the brain and the mouth...or hand or keyboard, whatever the case may be.

Good night...or morning if you're on the other side of the world.

Chris

P.S. - Sorry for the long read, had to get it out. And though I read through this about a million times, my eyes weren't working real well, so it may not be perfect, sorry.
 
Diesel-Dan said:
I'm reminded of a phrase my Dad always used when i was growing up:

Be slow to speak and quick to listen.

This thread has seemed to give an excuse for some to vent personal vendettas. I understand that it appears to look dark...but give them a chance to come clean. I think they are due that no matter how some feel.

Im not sticking up for ATS at all...as we will be watching as well....but im not ready to hang them up on a cross either.
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I think that you should wise up and get things in order, because messing with the fuel system and increasing the flow amount isn't what the EPA wants to see either. The only reason ATS didn't put your name on the list is because they are probably not done with their EPA friendly fuel supply pump yet. This has nothing to do with Lawers or EPA. It has everything to do with a Pissing match between Clint and Jared. Jared was spending 50K with ATS a month and now they buy Suncoast and build their own exhaust mainfolds for $100 cheaper that ATS and they look exactly the same. They can fight, thats fine, fight away, But to bring EPA in on this is below the belt.

Better not mess with Clint and ATS, ......There is a new Sherriff in town.....EPA
 
well one time darron put a 4 inch exhaust on a volkswagon and now like i saw on the news that a glacier is melting and polar bears are dieng!!!!!! thanks darren i to will be contacting the epa! I am sorry to have to throw you under the bus but its for the planet man!!!!!!
PS earl and his nitrouis is also a problem i will be telling the epa about!
 
Reb.B said:
I think that you should wise up and get things in order, because messing with the fuel system and increasing the flow amount isn't what the EPA wants to see either. The only reason ATS didn't put your name on the list is because they are probably not done with their EPA friendly fuel supply pump yet. This has nothing to do with Lawers or EPA. It has everything to do with a Pissing match between Clint and Jared. Jared was spending 50K with ATS a month and now they buy Suncoast and build their own exhaust mainfolds for $100 cheaper that ATS and they look exactly the same. They can fight, thats fine, fight away, But to bring EPA in on this is below the belt.

Better not mess with Clint and ATS, ......There is a new Sherriff in town.....EPA
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Not to get things too topic, but how is altering the fuel supply to the cp3 not epa friendly? I figured the FASS/Airdog route is the most friendly you can get, filtering the fuel better and removing the air, promoting better combustion and ensuring the plungers get the fuel in that they require for specific pressure faster. The only thing that comes to mind is the programming, the programming is assuming certain amount of air in fuel so it's tuned for that, fixing the air problem is making things out of ballance? Am I right on that?
 
JasonCzerak said:
Not to get things too topic, but how is altering the fuel supply to the cp3 not epa friendly? I figured the FASS/Airdog route is the most friendly you can get, filtering the fuel better and removing the air, promoting better combustion and ensuring the plungers get the fuel in that they require for specific pressure faster. The only thing that comes to mind is the programming, the programming is assuming certain amount of air in fuel so it's tuned for that, fixing the air problem is making things out of ballance? Am I right on that?
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If you own a gasser, you know you can't change the fuel system as per smog laws (this even means putting a larger aftermarket pump on). How is altering the fuel supply, air flow, exhaust, and so on not EPA friendly??? Because they can say whatever they want and do whatever they want. You can make something for it, but you have to pay the thousands of dollors in fees to make it though the tests.

On the bad side, stuff like this is going to bring the EPA into this whole thing of diesels even sooner.... they are going to be waving they arms and say :rules: .
 
is clint the guy that looks like the awesome actor in this pic or is he the one with the spiked hair? he drives the boogy max right? I don't see how he can do all of this for the epa but his truck smokes like the rest of ours. can someone explain this?
 

Attachments

Jeff2 said:
well one time darron put a 4 inch exhaust on a volkswagon and now like i saw on the news that a glacier is melting and polar bears are dieng!!!!!! thanks darren i to will be contacting the epa! I am sorry to have to throw you under the bus but its for the planet man!!!!!!
PS earl and his nitrouis is also a problem i will be telling the epa about!
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Jeff,

I'll contact my Attorney and have him write it for you. Although he knows nothing about diesels I am sure he will be able to add company names and address. Glad to see you helping out in the crusade:rockwoot:
 
Dennis Perry said:
Jeff,

I'll contact my Attorney and have him write it for you. Although he knows nothing about diesels I am sure he will be able to add company names and address. Glad to see you helping out in the crusade:rockwoot:
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I'll go ahead and hack into your email once it's done then post it here. Darren will have no choice but, to turn himself in to Jim Porter.
 
Can we leave scripture out of this thread please? What David was trying to say is he who is without sin cast the first stone, and don't be sheep.

Sorry if that is not an accurate translation.
 
Dalpilot said:
Can we leave scripture out of this thread please? What David was trying to say is he who is without sin cast the first stone, and don't be sheep.

Sorry if that is not an accurate translation.
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I guess we would rather read and spread hate rather than acknowledge our own shortcomings..
 
Reb.B said:
I think that you should wise up and get things in order, because messing with the fuel system and increasing the flow amount isn't what the EPA wants to see either. The only reason ATS didn't put your name on the list is because they are probably not done with their EPA friendly fuel supply pump yet. This has nothing to do with Lawers or EPA. It has everything to do with a Pissing match between Clint and Jared. Jared was spending 50K with ATS a month and now they buy Suncoast and build their own exhaust mainfolds for $100 cheaper that ATS and they look exactly the same. They can fight, thats fine, fight away, But to bring EPA in on this is below the belt.

Better not mess with Clint and ATS, ......There is a new Sherriff in town.....EPA
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Yeah!!!! And if u mess with him too much u might end up like Black Bart.... Pushin up Daisies!!!:hehe::hehe:
 
If this turns out to be a big misunderstanding, or as a blatant attempt to destroy your competition through unscrupulous business practices that hurts the diesel community as a whole, (and it WILL eventually come out in the wash as fact or fiction), there will be plenty of folks who will have to either have apologies written, or one company who will have a very black eye. I own nothing ATS, not because they do not offer anything good, I just had my stuff picked out elsewhere. Lets keep this thread over a discussion of the letter, and not about anyone personally at ATS, or the quality of their products........or god forbid, Dennis' boat.
 
Powerstroke Racer said:
I guess we would rather read and spread hate rather than acknowledge our own shortcomings..
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IMHO... Throwing half the diesel aftermarket industry & a bunch of your own customers under the bus, for personal gain, is a bit more than your average "shortcoming"
 
hpprose said:
received this letter from a source I feel is very reliable. I didn't not receive this letter with the hopes I would post it, it was just an fyi. As such, can anyone discredit this letter?

I am not saying we should ban ATS, nor boycott them. This is just an FYI for us who are in the industry

____________________________________________________________


AXXX WXXX
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Diesel Engine Consent Decree Coordinator
XXXX Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC XXXXX

Dear AXXX:

I would like to start by thanking you for speaking with Stewart Cables and myself at SEMA. You and your team did a very good job of preventing the meeting attendees from rioting!

As you may or may not be aware, ATS Diesel has been working on certain emission technologies to better our niche in the diesel community. Currently, we’re funding and developing a very expensive Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) technology; this product will allow more efficient flow, resulting in better fuel mileage and lower emissions than today’s technology. ATS’ profits are funding the majority of this project’s development budget.

A serious concern that we have — and dramatically affects the development of our new high flow DPF -- is the presence of so-called “DPF Delete Kits” on the market. Right now consumers are looking for a solution to the problematic factory DPF exhaust systems, and a few companies out there are manufacturing and/or selling these DPF delete kits for a very low margin.

As you’re aware, the main problem with DPF delete kits is this: for every illegal kit sold, research money is not invested into a real “fix” for the consumer’s problem. EPA has made it clear to the diesel manufacturing industry, in no uncertain terms, that DPF removal is illegal. However, at this time, EPA has been unable to enforce its regulations to get these illegal DPF delete kits off the street. When we spoke a few weeks ago, you mentioned that the EPA can only enforce so many of its regulations right now, and it’s becoming increasingly difficult to track offenders (whether they be manufacturers, resellers, or end users).

ATS has prepared a list of the larger DPF Delete kit manufacturers and resellers, gleaned from our knowledge of the industry, for you. We’ve also included support documentation for your convenience. A few of these act as resellers (in place of manufacturers) in an attempt to hide behind a “shell corporation.” Performance Diesel, Inc. (“PDI”) in St. George, Utah is one of these companies. Jared Wittwer, the owner of PDI, is also the creator of H&S Performance, (www.hsperformance.net). All of these kits are assembled at PDI in Utah and sold through PDI as though H&S Performance manufactures them. Attached is a copy of one of the receipts PDI invoices on; the part number should easily be used to help track down additional units that PDI or H&S have sold over the last year. We have been told by PDI’s manager that they sell over 100 units per month.

ATS is relying on the EPA to enforce its rules on this matter so we can generate enough revenue to properly manufacture a “fix” to the DPF problem. The word in our industry is that 1) if you don’t manufacture, you are allowed to resell, install, and use, and 2) manufacturers or resellers can hide behind the “Race Only’ labeling that the products are sold under. The fact is, and as I’m sure you know, nearly all of these kits are being used for on road trucks. Thank you for taking the time to listen.




Clint Cannon and Stewart Cables
for ATS Diesel Performance
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Eric @ ATS said:
You tell me where this invoice is that you keep talking about being attached, because I've never seen one. What do you mean given to the attorney? The attorney wrote the thing, after being asked to write a follow-up letter after the EPA / SEMA meetings, then sent it to Clint for review where it was immediately shot down. Follow the link I already posted and you'll see where this has been answered several times.
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can you please tell me where this line came from then?
 
mech2161 said:
What happened to being better with a better product. In the end your back stabbin crap will put you in the sheeter.
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Kevin, I agree, but look, a lot of diesel parts are commodities with not much differentiation. In such cases it comes down to marketing and business strategy.

If you don't learn to at least think like a shark, sooner or later you will be eaten by one. With the economy the way it is, the pressure is tremendous, and you need to come up with every idea you can, or die.

If I were in business selling fuel oil and gasoline (for example), and found out that a guy down the street was selling it cheaper because he was skirting the rules, would you sit back and take it? In this situation, you can't make the product better, it is what it is. So for example, if you found out that guy was illegally paying people under the table, and you could use that information to put a hurt on the guy, you would. Taking the moral high road and doing nothing could lead to your end.

Now, if you were doing shady stuff as well, fate has a way of paying you back.

I'm not justifying any of this sharky behavior on anyones part. But it's pretty clear that many people who have never run a business have a rather idealistic viewpoint of how things "should" be rather than a realistic view of how they actually are.

I am all for being a stand up person, no question about it, but judging people for actions they might or might not have done isn't stand up either.

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that someone with a grudge probably spit this out just to hurt ATS, and that's just plain wrong. If you read the note and crap all over ATS, you're kinda playing out exactly what the rat wanted you to.
 
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nwpadmax said:
Kevin, I agree, but look, a lot of diesel parts are commodities with not much differentiation. In such cases it comes down to marketing and business strategy.

If you don't learn to at least think like a shark, sooner or later you will be eaten by one. With the economy the way it is, the pressure is tremendous, and you need to come up with every idea you can, or die.

If I were in business selling fuel oil and gasoline (for example), and found out that a guy down the street was selling it cheaper because he was skirting the rules, would you sit back and take it? In this situation, you can't make the product better, it is what it is. So for example, if you found out that guy was illegally paying people under the table, and you could use that information to put a hurt on the guy, you would. Taking the moral high road and doing nothing could lead to your end.

Now, if you were doing shady stuff as well, fate has a way of paying you back.

I'm not justifying any of this sharky behavior on anyones part. But it's pretty clear that many people who have never run a business have a rather idealistic viewpoint of how things "should" be rather than a realistic view of how they actually are.

I am all for being a stand up person, no question about it, but judging people for actions they might or might not have done isn't stand up either.

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that someone with a grudge probably spit this out just to hurt ATS, and that's just plain wrong. If you read the note and crap all over ATS, you're kinda playing out exactly what the rat wanted you to.
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well said!!
 
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