Letter to EPA from ATS

So... Does that mean you don't know who hacked into the system?

If it was an inside job, I suspect they all share the same ID to each computer. So they have no clue who really was logged on to each computer. Again, IT security 101.1, everyone have their own passwords, desktop gets locked after 5 minutes of no usage, then you know who, when, and where it was accessed.

If it was from the outside, There are 100's of ways to be anonymous. ;-)

They have no clue based on the IT guys admittance to how stupid he is.
 
Comp D was the first then it popped up everywhere else.

Ok then so This hpprose says he got it from a realiable source but hasn't said who that source is?????????????

and why won't he???????????
 
What are you the worlds more retarded IT "professional"? Even MSCE's know better then that! I do not care if you are just a contractor, I would personally not be involved with any business, big or small if the owners can not comprehend security 101. This is not 1995 anymore folks. This chit is for real. You do not fark around with security and let every one and their mother know your passwords. Every server platform provides mechanisms to grant access on a need to know basis with a click of a mouse.

Tell me, Mr IT professional, Does ATS have any SOX or PCI compliance requirements? what about ISO?


Everyone do you now trust your financial information with ATS? Maybe previous customers should be contacting their lawyers to ensure your personal information is not compromised as well


This is insane, absolutely absurd, immoral and down right STUPID, sharing your passwords. My own GF, mother, father, brother, they do not even have a clue of what my passwords are.

WOW. Good luck guys. I know I can sleep good at night since I've never purchased anything from ATS....

I'll stop here. Cuz, I can go on and on.....




Good luck with that. Since his password is common knowledge, it's understood everyone has access to everything. LOL

This is why the GoGoDiesel server rocks only the latest editions of Freebsd, PHP, Apache, MySQL, and Vbulletin. Keep on pinging me you little chinese and korean bastards. You will never get in. Unix is user friendly...its just selective about who its friends are.
 
Ok then so This hpprose says he got it from a realiable source but hasn't said who that source is?????????????

and why won't he???????????

Do you value trust and anonymity? I due. There are "good secrets" and there are "bad secrets". you know the difference right. Something we all learned at about 6 years old.
 
That's how they do it where I work, along with automatic prompt for new password every 90 days.

If I read the his post correctly, he flatly stated that we're all dumb $hits and he's a notch above brilliant.
 
plain and simple, i am a owner of a successfull small buisness. i have always been taught by my father that you are only as good as the people that work for you. plain and simple, if ATS has people working for them that is leaking info, thats only if it was a ATS employee that leaked it, treats customers with the tone and language as shown on here, they have a totally different buisness scheme in their heads than i would ever think to imagine. it has been said many times on here, produce a better product than your oponent and beat him that way, no need to do negative sells, let your work stand up for itself. you can say all you want that the letter was never sent out, i can give a ratts ass about that. to me it was still written and other peoples names and shops were brought into it. its one thing to have a bad idea or thought, or tell your buddy your hate these guys and so on, and its another thing when you take the time out of your life to even right a formal letter like that to no one other than the EPA and rat on other people. just shows the mentality of some of the ATS staff. screw another company to make you profits. same thing can be said about us the customer, screw us hard to make some more high flow dpf . i agree, i dont think it was the IT at ATSs fault, internet security is a tough thing.

one last thing, why cant clint come on at least once in 14 pages of this crap and say something himself or the man who actually wrote the letter and tell us why it was even wrote in the first place. why cant clint tell us why he had him write it. why cant clint come on and explain himself or mr cables. i understand the trouble of one man trying to do buisness and take care of this at the same time but clint being the owner should have or should come on here and explain his side. if i was in the same situation i would be doing everything possible to make it right, not putting my buisness in other peoples hands.
 
This is why the GoGoDiesel server rocks only the latest editions of Freebsd, PHP, Apache, MySQL, and Vbulletin. Keep on pinging me you little chinese and korean bastards. You will never get in. Unix is user friendly...its just selective about who its friends are.

Ya had me until you said PHP and MySQL.! LOL

Perl, PostgreSQL, Oracle if you have the funds.

However, in the real world (corporate), Linux is the only way to go. :)
 
I am just going to post some of my educated observations of this whole "situation". I say educated because I deal with and am privy to legal letter, email, and inter-office correspondence for multi million dollar projects and developments daily. I want to also preface this by saying I am not privy to any "facts" nor claim to have any "inside" information about this particular letter or circumstances and my comments are based solely on ATS employee posts.

If the people at ATS were asking for my advice as to what to do, which they are not, I would advise them to post a simple, non threatening, to the point statement and BE QUIET!! Take whatever legal or non legal steps they feel necessary, but do it in private. Regardless of how or why this information was leaked, it is out there! Hands were "caught in the cookie jar" and it's time for damage control. The comments and replies posted by ATS employees are merely fueling the 5 alarm fire instead of extinguishing it.

All of the following observations were gleaned from ATS employee posted comments:

1- This letter has been admitted to as being "real". Regardless of whether it was a "draft" or "not intended to be mailed", it is the documented evidence of someone’s thoughts and/or intentions. Trying to sweep it under the rug because it was not intended to be sent out, makes it look worse.

2- It has been characterized as a "follow up" letter that was requested to be drawn up. Follow up letters are used to re-emphasize key points and/or actions stemming from a previous conversation or meeting. Rarely, if ever, are they forums for "new ideas". This would lead anyone to surmise that the specific topics in the letter had been previously discussed between the parties involved.

3- Although I can sympathize with a document being obtained or retrieved by unauthorized means, having the IT person publicly admitting that sensitive passwords remained unchanged even after employees who had access to them were no longer employed is not a good move. It may have compromised any legal actions available to be pursued due to blatant corporate negligence.


I also happen to agree with some people that the writing style of the letter does not appear to be "lawyerly" written. It does not mean it wasn't, just my observation. Below is an example that illustrates my reasoning. This is merely a simple email sent to me by our COO/CFO today who happens to be a lawyer and accountant also.

From: J XXXXX [mailto:jXXXXX@XXXXX.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 2:52 PM
To: Greg DaPron
Cc: Jerome XXXXX Jr.
Subject: FW: 222 Maryland Avenue, XXXXXXX



Greg,



I'll keep you posted over the next day or so. If we do not hear anything we will look to Jeff's response below as acquiescence to our moving forward with appropriate full demolition.



Jim XXXXX, COO, CFO



Again, I have "no dog in this hunt" nor do I want to. Just an innocent bystander's observations. ;)
 

Everyone do you now trust your financial information with ATS? Maybe previous customers should be contacting their lawyers to ensure your personal information is not compromised as well

That reminds me, about 2 months after i bought my intake manifold from ATS, i ended up getting a $2600 charge from them on my credit card. I called them up, and they have no idea how a programmer, turbo, and intake got ordered by me, and they still had my credit card number still in their system.
 
After reading all the posts, some informative, some amusing, some disturbing, I have to ask, with the proverbial "damage done", what is it that everyone wants from this thread? If Clint isn't going to apologize, (which is his prerogative) and ATS feels that since the letter wasn't ever intended to be released, it's a non-issue (everyone has their own opinion on that) what is it that everyone is hoping to get from this? IF Clint did come on here and issue a mea culpa, that still wouldn't satisfy anyone, would it? Would anything change for anyone? Regardless of defining Stewart's role in the company or the surprising lack of changing passwords, or the seemingly uncontested access to Clint's email, what is it that everyone wants? Could anyone be made happy in this thread? I'm not defending ATS or the "letter", but I am curious to know what it is that people want/expect from this thread? It seems many already didn't care for ATS or their products/customer service, and some now say they won't buy from them in the future, but is there anything that could come from this thread that would appease anyone?
Just wondering.
 
That reminds me, about 2 months after i bought my intake manifold from ATS, i ended up getting a $2600 charge from them on my credit card. I called them up, and they have no idea how a programmer, turbo, and intake got ordered by me, and they still had my credit card number still in their system.

Whom ever lets them use their CC gateway should get a "letter" explaining to them their (ats) practices.

I'd start some searches about PCI compliance.
 
Well first off, we don't sell a programmer with dpf delete software - for the d-max or any other vehicle.
.

ok so if you are telling me that your re labeled e power does not do dpf delete then i am sorry but i think other wise on that one pal
 
As you may or may not be aware, ATS Diesel has been working on certain emission technologies to better our niche in the diesel community. Currently, we’re funding and developing a very expensive Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) technology; this product will allow more efficient flow, resulting in better fuel mileage and lower emissions than today’s technology.


No matter where anyones stance is on ATS...
I really really do hope there is money being well spent for development of new DPF technology in the works.

I really hope this technology is supported by our main automakers, though with the way the economy is...:bang
 
Ya had me until you said PHP and MySQL.! LOL

Perl, PostgreSQL, Oracle if you have the funds.

However, in the real world (corporate), Linux is the only way to go. :)

Everything is installed through ports. Perl is on there. Its running memcached. PHP is needed for the vbulletin and the shopping cart. As far as SQL goes. You nailed it with the money factor. The cost of mysql which is using mysqli is a significant savings to me. I thought about doing a Win2008 Server so i could have exchange and some other things. But the money would have killed me. I own my own server and im on 20 megabit on the level 3 network. What use to be Epic Networks. The little dot on the map at SE 2nd street in ft lauderdale is my hut. It doesn't get much closer to the "internet" than that. I might be able to take out miami with one clip of the snips. Cisco catalyst routes everything between mine and my brothers hardware.

http://www.level3.com/downloads/Level_3_Network_map.pdf
 
So this will be my first post on CompD. First and foremost - cool boat, but I don't see strippers or stacks??? What gives?

Second:
Eric and the rest of the ATS crew - I think you need to STFU and leave us "forum rats" to our own devices. Your stories are not only contradictory, but very very incriminating (in my opinion).

So your story is that the letter is drafted by the company Attorney without any discussion with Clint or the rest of ATS. The Attorney conducted the research - including purchasing DPF delete kits from competitors with the intent of providing proof to the EPA. A complete list of the "larger DPF Delete kit manufacturers and resellers" was compiled with supporting documentation ready to send to the EPA. That Attorney provided a copy to Clint alone - who shot it down. And supposedly the issue dropped at that point?

So let me tell your story now with more detail (conveniently left out):

The Operations Manager for ATS purchased DPF delete kits from competitors for the sake of drafting a letter to the EPA. The Operations Manager intends to report these offenders with documentation to the EPA. The Operations Manager is also the company attorney and drafts the letter at the request of Clint. The letter is provided to the public by an ex-employee who harbors hostilities towards ATS because of your business practices and history. This ex-employee, along with the entire ATS management staff, has all of Clint’s passwords. ATS IT doesn't have any requirements or common sense about passwords and login (but don't worry ATS customers your information is secure).

And now ATS is pissed because the letter is in public. ATS employees (contract or otherwise) are lashing out and are insulting potential customers and current customers.

I mean seriously, why would we have any reason to question the truthfulness of your statements? Just because ATS’s Ops Manager/Attorney purchased competitors products for the sole purpose of gaining documentation to provide to the EPA?

No Silly analogies here. Just the truth as told by 3 different ATS employees.

Sam

PS
Why is it Clint has not stated publicly that which you purport? I understand him not having time to get on the forums and deal with us hypocrites - but why does his "public" (read carefully hidden) letter not address the issue of the letters creation, dissemination to the EPA, and the purchasing of competitors products with intent of reporting them to the EPA by ATS's Operations Manager?
 
No matter where anyones stance is on ATS...
I really really do hope there is money being well spent for development of new DPF technology in the works.

I really hope this technology is supported by our main automakers, though with the way the economy is...:bang

So you really believe its the filter?
 
Everything is installed through ports. Perl is on there. Its running memcached. PHP is needed for the vbulletin and the shopping cart. As far as SQL goes. You nailed it with the money factor. The cost of mysql which is using mysqli is a significant savings to me. I thought about doing a Win2008 Server so i could have exchange and some other things. But the money would have killed me. I own my own server and im on 20 megabit on the level 3 network. What use to be Epic Networks. The little dot on the map at SE 2nd street in ft lauderdale is my hut. It doesn't get much closer to the "internet" than that. I might be able to take out miami with one clip of the snips. Cisco catalyst routes everything between mine and my brothers hardware.

http://www.level3.com/downloads/Level_3_Network_map.pdf

if you are ever up in Minneapolis, I'll take ya to the datacenter at my work. it is a live running timcapsule. mainframes from the early 90's, to a very well built virtual infrastructure, few NT 4.0 servers, 30 windows server based tomcat web cluster, $4m oracle rac cluster. we
have main frame networking to 10g Ethernet and some fiber channel mixed in the middle. 200mbit pipe to the world for starters. the building was built in 1830 orignaly. lots of history
 
Well After sifting through the ATS responses I have a few things to say, life lesson wise.

First off, Eric, Bryan, Clint, and all of the other guys at ATS, need to get off of the forums and sit down and have a conference. It is obvious this is a huge issue that is very threatening to the companies success so you guys really do need to drop what you are doing and take time to respond.

What you are doing now on the forums( and I will call out Eric on this because his posts are the only ones ive seen thus far), is getting belligerent with people because you wither know the truth or are trying to hide something.

That was a rhetorical statement. meant simply to imply your attitude at this point not to say this letter is true or false.

Are you truely an employee who is responsible for customer relations at ATS?? It really doesnt seem like it, or your schooling was not too good.

Here are a few quotes from you.

Jerkoff? Did you happen to, by any chance, actually read what he posted or are you just pissed cuz there wus 2 many big werds? (Timbeaux, is it too early in my Comp D relationship to start that?) He clearly says exactly who he is & why he's posting.

Mocking potential customers doesnt get you anywhere.

I'm not sure who your source is regarding all the people we've supposedly turned in, but next time consider getting your facts from somebody without a taste for peyote.

This is just beliggerant and offense considering the situation you are in and what your job title is.

I'm sorry if my attitude has appeared hostile here. It's a combination of answering the same questions dozens of times & frustration with people reading only bits & pieces of what's been stated before posting their own input, along with being caught up in the general atmosphere of this forum in particular. If you've seen my posts on other forums, you'll see that I'm not a hostile person, and I've taken great pains to remain civil throughout the frustrations of the last day and a half.

here you apologize for your attitude, but as the customer service expert you should be able to keep cool at all times or walk away when you get too irritated. You can walk away and cool down before clicking the submit button.

I think Clint needs to reconsider who he hires as many of his so called "experts" are far from that.

With that, I'm leaving here yet again an hour and 45 minutes after quitting time. Y'all have a good night

And we care why?? Your company is in a tight spot now, an extra hour and 45 minutes is nothing to complain about. Look at farmers like me. During harvest when our business depends on getting the crops in, we will work sleepless nights until it is done. Because we care about our business.


I hope you take this to heart, and set up a meeting with everybody and read through posts on the forums and decide what to respond as a team. That way there is a system of checks and balances.

As for Joels post, I dont want to make this post to lengthy so I will leave his out. He is not a customer service guy from what I understand so his anger is forgiven.

Yes it will be time consuming, but it is necessary. Sure us guys on these forums make up probably less than 10% of your business, but the guys on these forums are the ones on magazine convers and winning events as well as pioneering new things in the diesel community.

YOu also have to remember all of us on these forums are diesel fanatics, and because of that we are the people that our buddies come to for advice on mods for their trucks. If you piss us off not only do you loose our business, but you loose any business from people we communicate with. Which can be devastating in the end.

As for my stand on ATS, I do not currently own any of their products and hadnt really planned to as their products do not fit my needs. Maybe a co-pilot but thats it.

My $.02 thanks for listening.
 
if you are ever up in Minneapolis, I'll take ya to the datacenter at my work. it is a live running timcapsule. mainframes from the early 90's, to a very well built virtual infrastructure, few NT 4.0 servers, 30 windows server based tomcat web cluster, $4m oracle rac cluster. we
have main frame networking to 10g Ethernet and some fiber channel mixed in the middle. 200mbit pipe to the world for starters. the building was built in 1830 orignaly. lots of history

1830? Thats awesome. I really enjoy seeing stuff like that. Stuff that was built when there was zero thought of 42U rack enclosures, power equipment, battery backups, patch panels, single or double gang boxes with rj45 jacks and enough Cat6 to lasso the moon. And you would appreciate this.... Windows for workgroups 3.11 died a few weeks ago as the last remaining liscense was discontinued. Its actual use was in kiosk type terminals. Extrememly stable since most new types of exploits can't run on that system. The news was posted on slashdot. I still remember loading that thing from 6 3.5" disks. But only after loading Dos 6.2.2. To think where we are now.
 
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