My cam looks like ch!t!!!!! Why??

XTrEmE9156 said:
:badidea:

See what happened was, that when all the new trucks required new emission standards, the oil needed to be changed to a CJ rating.. Unfortunately the CJ rating removed more than half of the sulfated ash content, and quite a bit of the zinc as well.. what this leaves us with is junk.. an oil with no ability to neutralize combustion chemicals and poor load bearing and sheer qualities.. Find a CI or lower rated oil and buy it and use it.. add a bottle of zinc every oil change. if you can find it use Lucas 15w-40 high TBN oil, it is CI rated and has high total base number.. rotella has been proven to cause ISB rocker shaft scuffing in an industrial application, never mind a performance application..$.02
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I put the helix in at xmas/new year of '09 with 240k miles on my truck. why did the stock cam look brand new with NO flaws/scratches/heat marks, no nothing(i will have pic's to compare tonight). I dont see how my stock cam was pristine and my helix with ONLY 8k miles on it looks horrible. why are the lobes on the helix cam so narrow compared to stock cam? with such a narrow surface on cam lobe and wider tappet surface wouldnt that be an issue? i dont see how oil would protect my stock cam for over 240k miles and destroy another cam within 8k miles?
 
XTrEmE9156 said:
Rotella was a good oil, probably the best for the money, but now, oil is oil.. if you run it in equipment i think that it will be fine. the differences in tolerances and load bearing area form a 5.9 to a 8.3 or bigger engine is pretty sufficient to allow for some lubrication deficiency.. the 5.9 is pretty light duty for a cummins.. and the way the oiling system is designed on the engine, it relies heavily on oil..
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you say rotella is a bad idea but then you say oil is oil. i dont comprehend your knowledge. please reiterate.
 
OT-OF-Here said:
It says to use 1 bottle to 5 qts. With the 12 qts we have then I use two bottles, as the Rotella T (yes, I use it too) has a pretty good safegard of zinc in it vs a lot of other oils. It also says to use ALL in the bottle once you open so you'd have a partial bottle left out of a third bottle so I feel (and my actual eyes on inspection shows) that the two bottles with the Rotella are doing the trick for me. My $.02
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you use 2 bottles of lucas break in additive? or do you used 2 small bottle of zddp...?
 
I have not heard anything from a dealer on this. Did you contact one yet?

I can help people way faster when they use a dealer. It has been so busy here I dont have as much time to check out the forums anymore. I try, but cant catch it all.

The can can be fixed, but you will need new tappets. That'll solve the problem.
 
Soup Nazi said:
The cam can be fixed, but you will need new tappets. That'll solve the problem.
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New tappets....so not only does he need to fix the cam but go through the time consuming task of R&R'n the tappets?? :kick:


What caused this failure Don???
 
nrussell said:
you say rotella is a bad idea but then you say oil is oil. i dont comprehend your knowledge. please reiterate.
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based on test oil sample data, rotella t CI plus oil formulation was a superior oil.. they still make it but it isn't available in stores, only from select dealers and distributors.. The current rotella T (triple protection) that is available in stores is comparable to all CJ rated oils because it needs to meet a certain specification for soot control, zinc content, and sulfated ash content.. This is due to the new EPA emission requirements and the fact that engines now use a DPF and urea injection.. So to sum this all up, all the CJ rated oils now currently on the market are all on the same playing field due to emissions.. :bang
 
nrussell said:
I put the helix in at xmas/new year of '09 with 240k miles on my truck. why did the stock cam look brand new with NO flaws/scratches/heat marks, no nothing(i will have pic's to compare tonight). I dont see how my stock cam was pristine and my helix with ONLY 8k miles on it looks horrible. why are the lobes on the helix cam so narrow compared to stock cam? with such a narrow surface on cam lobe and wider tappet surface wouldnt that be an issue? i dont see how oil would protect my stock cam for over 240k miles and destroy another cam within 8k miles?
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i'm in the same boat, i just bought an engine with 5,000 miles on it that had a haisley small intermediate cam in it and it is fukked.. :bang
 
2007 5.9 said:
New tappets....so not only does he need to fix the cam but go through the time consuming task of R&R'n the tappets?? :kick:


What caused this failure Don???
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R&R sucks, but these are performance parts, sometimes they fail. I can't gripe because a part didn't hold up to 4X the hp the engine was designed for. I had a new cam put in and will write it off as bad luck.
 
Im runnin deere's new 50 plus 2 in my trucks seem to be really good so far
 
Hoodrat said:
Im runnin deere's new 50 plus 2 in my trucks seem to be really good so far
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Plus-50 II™ 15W-40 Engine Oil


Applications

– Plus-50 II provides the best performance and wear protection for John Deere diesel engines.

– Excellent for use in all diesel engines requiring a 15W-40 oil with CJ-4 performance.

– Excellent for heavy-duty trucks, tractors, pickups, combines and other diesel engines.

– Plus-50 II is recommended for four-stroke naturally aspirated, turbocharged and supercharged diesel engines with diesel particulate filters (DPF), diesel oxidation catalysts (DOC), and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). Examples of applications include vehicles requiring CJ-4 oil, heavy-duty off-road equipment, on-road trucks, marine engines, natural gas engines, pickups, and automobiles.

Service Ratings

API (diesel): CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS,
CI-4, CH-4, CG-4
API (gasoline): SM, SL, SJ
ACEA (Europe) oil sequences: E9, E7
JASO (Japan) oil standards: DH-2
Global: DHD-1
John Deere: JDQ-78X
Cummins: CES20081, 77, 76, 75
Detroit Diesel (DDC): 93K218 Mercedes Benz:228.31
Mack: EO-O Premium Plus 07
Volvo:VDS-4, VDS-3, VDS-2
Man: M3275
MTU: Type 2.1
Renault VI: RLD, RXD, RD

Test Analysis 15W-40

Viscosity @ 40°C................... 128 cSt
Viscosity @ 100°C.................. 15.6 cSt
Viscosity index.................... 127
HTHS @ 150°C....................... 4.3 cP
Pour point......................... -36°C
Flash point........................ 225°C
Total base number (TBN)..... 10.5 mg KOH/g
Sulfated ash level................. 1.0 mass %


lucas:
http://www.lucasoil.com/images/medialibrary/30_15W_40_Magnum.pdf

old rotella CI-4:
http://www.shellusserver.com/products/pdf/RotellaTCI-4CI-4.pdf
 
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't you supposed to have the tappets resurfaced or replaced with new ones when you swap in a new cam?

I definitely would be leery to swap a new cam in with tappets that had 240k on them. $.02
 
j-rod said:
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but aren't you supposed to have the tappets resurfaced or replaced with new ones when you swap in a new cam?

I definitely would be leery to swap a new cam in with tappets that had 240k on them. $.02
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x2 :poke:

i don't think you should ever reuse worn parts with new surface..
 
Hamilton Cams said:
The pressure exceeded the surface area the oil film had to work with. This is a problem ALL cam manufacturers, regrinders etc. have to fight.
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Cavitation due to low pressure? Widening the lobe or loosening the tolerances should both work, no?
 
Rip at Source helped me today on my cam :thankyou2:and Don M. is taking care of it with a warranty replacement for me :thankyou2:. Thanks to Rip and Don M. Here are some pic's.
 

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Glad to hear it's getting taken care of. Rip and Don are both good guys.
 
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what local stores can you pick up this additive? With my block being line bored does that help save on the cam?
 
Wow, I was expecting to see something a little worse. I can't see the part as well as I would like, but it looks like it is serviceable. Cummins has a great photo set to identify if a cam is still usable. I have the photos on disk and can try and get them resized and posted. They are over 40 megs in size each. It might take me a few days to get that done.

A couple of things for anyone wanting to know:

IF that is a pit in the second photo on the first lobe......and if that exceeds 2mm's in length the cam is not reusable as is.

Some pitting is acceptable, but here are the guidelines:

1. no single pit should exceed 2mm's in diameter.
2. single pits can't be connected to one another. multiple single pits are ok with the exceptions below:
3. the area of all pits can't exceed 6mm's total. an example would be if you have 7 pits and they are all 1mm's each. There are also criteria in the manual for edge wear/deterioration. It is a tougher standard and more in depth to explain on here.

This is all available in the B series Cummins engine service manual. For a reference; I have never seen it in the Dodge service manuals so to save you time, don't look buy one for this issue.

Hope this helps.

Please send the cam over and let me have a look at it. I am very good at determining what goes wrong and why in most cases on cam failures. if I can't do that with 100% certainty my grinder is the best I have seen at this.
 
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