My cam looks like ch!t!!!!! Why??

dangerous06 said:
So how did your truck run with that cam?? Is this why you pulled it?
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it was runnin sluggish on the bottom end but ran like a scalded dog up top. I blew the head gasket between 1&2, 3&4, 5&6. It had a torch spot between 1&2 cylinder on head and block and 5&6 were starting to get a torch mark.Oil in coolant. Pistons were fine. Cam looked like...well you saw the pic's
 

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Soup Nazi said:
Wow, I was expecting to see something a little worse. I can't see the part as well as I would like, but it looks like it is serviceable. Cummins has a great photo set to identify if a cam is still usable. I have the photos on disk and can try and get them resized and posted. They are over 40 megs in size each. It might take me a few days to get that done.

A couple of things for anyone wanting to know:

IF that is a pit in the second photo on the first lobe......and if that exceeds 2mm's in length the cam is not reusable as is.

Some pitting is acceptable, but here are the guidelines:

1. no single pit should exceed 2mm's in diameter.
2. single pits can't be connected to one another. multiple single pits are ok with the exceptions below:
3. the area of all pits can't exceed 6mm's total. an example would be if you have 7 pits and they are all 1mm's each. There are also criteria in the manual for edge wear/deterioration. It is a tougher standard and more in depth to explain on here.

This is all available in the B series Cummins engine service manual. For a reference; I have never seen it in the Dodge service manuals so to save you time, don't look buy one for this issue.

Hope this helps.

Please send the cam over and let me have a look at it. I am very good at determining what goes wrong and why in most cases on cam failures. if I can't do that with 100% certainty my grinder is the best I have seen at this.
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I will be shipping it to you tomorrow. Actually I just bought the Cummins service manuals today. My main concern is why did it do this in such a short period of time? I guess you will see when it is in your hands in a couple of days. Thanks
 
here are some more pics
 

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Most of the lobes are not wearing on the center base circle area. This looks like the tappets were worn in the center and riding the edges of the lobes.

One of two things could be going on:

The cam lobes were not ground with enough taper or the tappets were worn in the center when the cam was installed making a convex or dish shape in their face. This causes the cam lobe to ride the edges of the dish, so to speak. Giving that weird wear pattern where you see little wear in the center of the lobe and and lots of wear on the edges.
 
I have a new Helix 2 I've been planning to put in, and was considering not replacing the original tappets. I just rolled 200,000 miles yesterday, think I will replace them now to be on the safe side!
 
Im running Delo CI+4 and 1/3 bottle of lucas break in.
Your opnions welcome, is that enough?
Don also wrote that to much can problems, Im trying to keep the zink at about 18000 PPM
 
how often are you guys changing oil?? i change every 2500-3000 just for good measure.
 
every 3k miles.....religiously!!!!!! I take good care of my truck, it supports my family. no truck , no money.
 
Forrest Nearing said:
if my truck supported my family, it wouldn't have twins and an aftermarket cam in it :eek:
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Very valid. Reliability is very volatile when you get serious about modding. And when you're running cams, twins, large injectors, etc. you've most definitely crossed the line into the serious category.

It's best to have a backup plan when planning to run these trucks as a daily driver, like what are you going to do when you break a billet shaft, blow a head gasket, or window your block.

I just went through all of this again with another transmission, even though the tranny was covered under warranty, that warranty doesn't cover the time trying to live without your DD.
 
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I don't think changing to an aftermarket cam has to place you in the "might leave you stranded catagory". N-russell, Could I buy that set of tappets off of you? I would like to see if they are worn enough to cause the issue Don is describing. In testing we have put cams in engines with almost 400,000 miles to give the worst case scenario and they are still running with well over 400,000 now. I can't for the life of me understand how the width of the lobe is not an issue and is not questioned. The OE 6.7l camshaft is almost 1.250", 03-07 Cr's are .940" and the helix is .711-.770".

N-russell, you asked the question why did my stock cam last 240,000 miles and look new and the helix last very few miles? The pressure on the lobes is similar between stock and the helix cam. A little bit more for the helix due to the fact that is has slightly higher lift. Since the pressure is similar, the tappets are the same, the oil is the same. One difference stand out. The helix has a much narrrower lobe. Had your helix been as wide as the factory cam that lasted 240,000 miles we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Zinc additive is a great thing, in that it augments the ability of the oil to maintain it's film strength and not allow the parts to touch. This is part of the equation. Since the pressure is the same, the only other determining factor is how wide of an area can the load be spread upon. The wider the better. Think of how a narrow tire reacts in the rain vs a wide racing tire. The narrow tire will break through the water the wide tire won't. This is the exact reason most of the s-300's are being offered with 360 degree bearings vs the old 270 degree bearings that were designed for higher zinc oils.

The whole issue is VERY simple. Don, the factory had it right on lobe width. And to be honest the cam doesn't look 100% trashed, slight grinding should get it back to the quality it was new. If all of the variable are the same we can have this conversation again shortly.

Zach
 
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Hamilton Cams said:
I don't think changing to an aftermarket cam has to place you in the "might leave you stranded catagory". N-russell, Could I buy that set of tappets off of you? I would like to see if they are worn enough to cause the issue Don is describing. In testing we have put cams in engines with almost 400,000 miles to give the worst case scenario and they are still running with well over 400,000 now. I can't for the life of me understand how the width of the lobe is not an issue and is not questioned. The OE 6.7l camshaft is almost 1.250", 03-07 Cr's are .940" and the helix is .711-.770".

N-russell, you asked the question why did my stock cam last 240,000 miles and look new and the helix last very few miles? The pressure on the lobes is similar between stock and the helix cam. A little bit more for the helix due to the fact that is has slightly higher lift. Since the pressure is similar, the tappets are the same, the oil is the same. One difference stand out. The helix has a much narrrower lobe. Had your helix been as wide as the factory cam that lasted 240,000 miles we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Zinc additive is a great thing, in that it augments the ability of the oil to maintain it's film strength and not allow the parts to touch. This is part of the equation. Since the pressure is the same, the only other determining factor is how wide of an area can the load be spread upon. The wider the better. Think of how a narrow tire reacts in the rain vs a wide racing tire. The narrow tire will break through the water the wide tire won't. This is the exact reason most of the s-300's are being offered with 360 degree bearings vs the old 270 degree bearings that were designed for higher zinc oils.

The whole issue is VERY simple. Don, the factory had it right on lobe width. And to be honest the cam doesn't look 100% trashed, slight grinding should get it back to the quality it was new. If all of the variable are the same we can have this conversation again shortly.

Zach
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Well Zach, if a person was to install new tappets when cam was new would the results be the same. Don stressed that we put new tappets in, when we installed our helix. Don? are your tappets made for these cams? If so please explain why?
 
Why is no one trying Rev-X additive to prevent cam wear? Maybe it works better than zinc.
 
MissouriHooker said:
Well Zach, if a person was to install new tappets when cam was new would the results be the same. Don stressed that we put new tappets in, when we installed our helix. Don? are your tappets made for these cams? If so please explain why?
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We don't recommend putting in tappets unless you have a 12v with a tappet designed for a narrow lobed cam. Other than that we only ask that you change them if there are obvious signs of wear to the cam or tappets. Of course there could be extenuating circumstances that could cause a failure but to date I have seen none. I don't think changing tappets is a bad thing, I am just trying to limit the cost to the end user. Why change if it is not necessary? That being said, when you are buying a persons products you need to follow their recommendations if you want their help when something like this happens.

I am not familiar with Rev-x.

Zach
 
Big Swole said:
Damn, that Cold!!


valid, but cold...


lol
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wasn't trying to kick the guy while he's down, but I might be inclined to slide the stock cam back in and roll out.

I've seen too many issues with aftermarket camshafts in these engines, and every manufacturer/distributor points their finger at all the other manufacturer/distributors or at the lack of adding an extra $20 in additive to already overpriced oil changes, etc. etc.

I'm just too nervous about spending all that money/labor on something that I've yet to be convinced is as reliable as OEM :eek:
 
and that wasn't a dig at anyone... there are positive reviews for all the cam distributors...

but there are also people who have had issues with them as well... was it install error? improper lube? don't know, and at this point, don't care... because I can't afford to be a guinea pig
 
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