new 12v springs

Runninlean said:
Just curious as you list Hamilton as a sponsor wouldn't a phone call been a better route to go on this conversation?

I mean honestly someone is going to be wrong here and if its you or Hamilton it would seem you still lose....


People wonder why we have a hard time picking up sponsorships when we eat our own? No disrespect intended just the whole thing seems odd to me.
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I tried calling him previously, never got a return call. Today he answered and we spoke about it. That's why I posted if it was ok with him to post the pics. On the sponsorship, he made us a great deal when we purchased a pretty good chunk of parts. Nothing was sent here straight up free. I'm still greatful for him helping us out. I'm not bashing his products or him. Just trying to remedy an issue some are having. Or is that not ok?
 
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Like I said man no disrespect intended just seemed was more to the story is all.

I hope you guys get it hashed out and taken care of. From my dealings with Zach I would imagine he will get it sorted out.
 
So lets say a stock retainer and lock was taken off a bone stock head at 1.906 and one of Zach's lock and retainer was put on the same valve and is -.126 @ 1.780 were does the problem lie????????
 
Diesel wrencher, I am wondering what your real motives are behiind posting all of this. I answered today, I answer 99% of the time, I answer text, email, private messages, smoke signals etc. I think you and another guy previously in this thread might have an axe to grind. If you did not, you might have taken my offer to pay to ship your head to me to measure all clearances and fix whatever is wrong for free. You keep saying it is the locks fault, but you will not check valve length, valve face depth or any other clearances.

You either don't want to check clearances because you want to keep the waters muddied, or you don't want me to see that there is no issue. If I am wrong in this assumption, allow me to help you isolate exactly where the issue is. If ther really is an issue, I want to find it and fix it. You have a head off of a 1989 Cummins. That head has been around a long time, there may have been work done on it to change installed height like aftermarket valves or pressed in seats.

You think almost 1,000 sets into this, if there was a systematic issue, it would have shown itself by now. That being said, anything made by human hands has the chance for error. If one of my manufacturers has sold me something with an issue, I will make it right. Since I helped you out on the build, If you wanted my help in resolving an issue I think you would have handled this differently.

Disturbed, if that is measurements off of one of my retainers, I would like to see the parts and make it right. If not, allow me to assume there is no issue.

On our new heads, the 1.850" valves we use are longer to give a slightly higher installed height for people running very high lift cams.

RonA, 1.350-1.390. The main issue is that they are consistent across the board. That is why a seat and guide machine is so importatn on the 24v heads. I think you have had bad luck with old school machining in the past.

Zach
 
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Hamilton Cams;1740201 RonA said:
I appreciate the info Zach. The valves sit towards the deep end of the tolerance due to the first valve job and having to fix it by sinking them all to the depth of the deepest one. I gave the numbers to the shop finishing the build and he said he likes to keep the installed heights very close so i'm sure they will be fine.
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Hamilton Cams said:
Diesel wrencher, I am wondering what your real motives are behiind posting all of this. I answered today, I answer 99% of the time, I answer text, email, private messages, smoke signals etc. I think you and another guy previously in this thread might have an axe to grind. If you did not, you might have taken my offer to pay to ship your head to me to measure all clearances and fix whatever is wrong for free. You keep saying it is the locks fault, but you will not check valve length, valve face depth or any other clearances.

You either don't want to check clearances because you want to keep the waters muddied, or you don't want me to see that there is no issue. If I am wrong in this assumption, allow me to help you isolate exactly where the issue is. If ther really is an issue, I want to find it and fix it. You have a head off of a 1989 Cummins. That head has been around a long time, there may have been work done on it to change installed height like aftermarket valves or pressed in seats.

You think almost 1,000 sets into this, if there was a systematic issue, it would have shown itself by now. That being said, anything made by human hands has the chance for error. If one of my manufacturers has sold me something with an issue, I will make it right. Since I helped you out on the build, If you wanted my help in resolving an issue I think you would have handled this differently.

Disturbed, if that is measurements off of one of my retainers, I would like to see the parts and make it right. If not, allow me to assume there is no issue.

On our new heads, the 1.850" valves we use are longer to give a slightly higher installed height for people running very high lift cams.

RonA, 1.350-1.390. The main issue is that they are consistent across the board. That is why a seat and guide machine is so importatn on the 24v heads. I think you have had bad luck with old school machining in the past.

Zach
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Pictures will be posted along with all measurements found on all heads measured. I'll even post pics of "your" keepers and retainers.

My axe is you LIED about giving us anything for free.
 
I was not sure if I gave you anything for free. I give so much stuff away at very cheap or free prices, I can't keep it straight. I was right that I gave you some form of sponsorship. I appreciate you giving me all measurements including overall valve length, margain thickness and margain to the top of the bead.


All of this data will help me identify the issue and take care of you.
 
Hamilton Cams said:
I was not sure if I gave you anything for free. I give so much stuff away at very cheap or free prices, I can't keep it straight. I was right that I gave you some form of sponsorship. I appreciate you giving me all measurements including overall valve length, margain thickness and margain to the top of the bead.


All of this data will help me identify the issue and take care of you.
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You misread what I posted. I'm not about to pull the heads on all the engines I'm measuring. You will get installed height as my time is more valuable working on customers vehicles. The solution to your problem is on its way already.
 
BowtiedCTD said:
You misread what I posted. I'm not about to pull the heads on all the engines I'm measuring. You will get installed height as my time is more valuable working on customers vehicles. The solution to your problem is on its way already.
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That is what I figured. If you did not really want my help, why did you bother.... don't answer that, I know your motives.
 
I'm not sending my head clear to Texas, just because I can measure install height on a factory Cummins head, as can many others that are having the same issue I am.
 
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I would have covered the full bill. The installed height is only part of the issue, I wanted to measure the valve face depth, head height, margain to groove top, margain to face etc. I did not think you would have done all of that and I would not design new parts based on someone elses measurements if ther was an issue.


I think were slowing down here. Have a good evening.

Zach
 
Just got done measuring 5 different Stock Cummins heads:

Engine 1:
Factory Lock and Retainer: 1.979"
Hamilton Lock and Retainer: 1.845"

Engine 2:
Factory Lock and Retainer: 1.981"
Hamilton Lock and Retainer: 1.854"

Engine 3:
Factory Lock and Retainer: 2.018"
Hamilton Lock and Retainer: 1.885"

Engine 4:
Factory Lock and Retainer: 1.986"
Hamilton Lock and Retainer: 1.849"

Engine 5:
Factory Lock and Retainer: 1.946"
Hamilton Lock and Retainer: 1.831"

On the spring that was tested today, 1.880"=190lbs.
 
WOW guys

I should probably stay out of this but anyone that is building a motor or head or anything for that matter should check everything! You should never take anything for granted. I have never bought a thing from Zach some i'm no ballwasher before that starts. I have met him and he seems to be a strait shooter and makes nice products. I'm sure if it's his fault he will make it strait with anyone. With that said if you have a lock/retainer combo that moves the installed height down that much you will be able to see it you a naked eye. Are you sure you don't have a 7* lock in a 10* retainer dropping it down? I'm just a person lurking and trying to learn.
 
Stingpuller said:
I should probably stay out of this but anyone that is building a motor or head or anything for that matter should check everything! You should never take anything for granted. I have never bought a thing from Zach some i'm no ballwasher before that starts. I have met him and he seems to be a strait shooter and makes nice products. I'm sure if it's his fault he will make it strait with anyone. With that said if you have a lock/retainer combo that moves the installed height down that much you will be able to see it you a naked eye. Are you sure you don't have a 7* lock in a 10* retainer dropping it down? I'm just a person lurking and trying to learn.
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First of all, these springs, locks and retainers aren't meant for high lift cams. I've seen that brought up a few times in this thread now. Secondly, I'll bet you 80% of these springs, locks, and retainers have been installed on engines still in trucks by regular guys in their drive way or garage. Not guys building an engine from fresh. You asked about the locks being 7* or 10*. That is a good question for Zach. These parts are the ones he's selling. Not me. I just know what I have is what he sent us, and I know how he said to install them. I know the 10* locks I just got to replace the old locks look a heck of a lot better installed and the valve height is right where it needs to be. I wasn't trying to start a pissing match with this whole deal. I just asked a simple question on page one. In stead of getting an answer I get how it is probably my head because a zillion of these have been sold and I'm an idiot. Fine. We'll see about that.
 
If your going through the trouble to install the springs, locks ect... then its just common sense to measure everything, regardless if it is a "drop in set". If you cant measure it then take it to someone who can help you. Its not a step that you can just overlook and be fine. Maybe for a while but in the long run it will get you. Just my .02
 
12VALVEADAM said:
If your going through the trouble to install the springs, locks ect... then its just common sense to measure everything, regardless if it is a "drop in set". If you cant measure it then take it to someone who can help you. Its not a step that you can just overlook and be fine. Maybe for a while but in the long run it will get you. Just my .02
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You're absolutely correct! I know I for one trusted some one and I should have just checked my own the first time. Case closed. It's fixed and I have learned my lesson!
 
Was not really directed towards you dieselwrencher. Just more of a statement. I have been burned by people quite a bit. Glad you figured it out.
 
If you would like, send the springs back with the invoice showing the amount you paid and I will give you a full refund. My goal is not to get rich in this endeavor, but to make a quality product, horsepower and answer to a higher power in how I conduct myself and my business.

Regardless, if you think this is fair, feel free to send them back or let me know what you think is fair. I really wish you would have pmed me previouly and allowed me to do the right thing. The way that this was handled appears to be staged as a publicity stunt instead of a customer looking fix a problem. I look forward to seeing the parts in question and seeing if there really is a problem.

The way this was handled is becoming all to common on the forums. It makes people keep their guard up. I look forward to the day that I can afford to close my doors, or people start learning proper ways to conduct themselves. That being said most of you are amazing people who share a common love of HP. I truly appologize if I shipped you a defective part and am willing to make it right.
 
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