The first to 300 miles per hour

madmikeismad said:
I think a set of 5x.100's could do it.
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No they couldn't, the orifice size is not the area of limitation. This is why you will always see a diminishing return in flow when increasing orifice sizing alone.
 
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Diesel Tech said:
If you have to change the fuel to run the RPM then you are no longer DIESEL racing, so the whole point of calling it a diesel goes right out the window. Might as well just call it what it is, FUEL racing! I want to see a Fuel Diesel go compete with a Fuel Gas class, now doesn't that sound stupid!
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The line between "cheating bastard" and "innovator" is quite thin....
 
CREED1 said:
Its still compression ignition though...... Your just altering the fuel.
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Isn't it like 300' down the track the spark plugs are gone and just the residual heat and compression that makes it go the other 700'?
 
Smokem said:
No they couldn't, the orifice size is not the area of limitation. This is why you will always see a diminishing return in flow when increasing orifice sizing alone.
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I'm just joking about flow, not the rest of the fuel system to support it.
 
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Smokem said:
In many "maximum effort" platforms there is little to no swirl left in the port, I'm not of the mindset of abandoning all hope of efficiency for flow, but it has been working.
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My reference was not to swirl from the port, it was swirl produced by means of squishing the charge between the head & crown into the bowl by means of the fly-cut layout.

If you have to change the fuel to run the RPM then you are no longer DIESEL racing, so the whole point of calling it a diesel goes right out the window. Might as well just call it what it is, FUEL racing! I want to see a Fuel Diesel go compete with a Fuel Gas class, now doesn't that sound stupid!
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:doh:
You are missing my point. We can refine and produce fuels in more than one way, why not take the way that has less heavy molecules, only common sense. With heavies, through the plum we have no consistency we most likely have some here, some there and that is where fine tuning a fuel by design that DOES NOT go out of the world of DIESEL exists.

Fuel density is a requirement with increased cylinder pressure and RPM, reducing density could increase efficiency, but that means very little if you cannot make power where it is needed.
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This is WHY exactly why I brought this up for discussion :Cheer:

If the fuel that Diesel is right now is as good as it will get, the fuel will not be known for anything besides low rpm and hauling/pulling efficiency, just that simple guys. I suppose me reaching too far is just too much, you are :welcome:
 
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What about how Syndiesel is being made? From their website

Syndiesel.com
Synthetic diesel is made from a gas-to-liquids technology that creates liquid hydrocarbons from synthetic gas which can be made from a variety of fossil fuels and environmental fuels. The major attributes of synthetically produced diesel fuels are:

Little or no sulfur compounds
High Cetane (60 cetane number vs 40 for regular diesel fuel)
Higher btu value than regular diesel fuel
High level of Stability (lasts a long time)
Pleasant odor
Higher flash point
Clear water white color
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Is 60 Cetane the peak or what? Since it seems to be the combustion improver for any grade, brand or purpose. No matter which brand we have a uncontrolled burn cycle after injection.
 
Fahlin Racing said:
What about how Syndiesel is being made? From their website

Syndiesel.com


Is 60 Cetane the peak or what? Since it seems to be the combustion improver for any grade, brand or purpose. No matter which brand we have a uncontrolled burn cycle after injection.
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I've run that stuff and it didnt perform as well as our diesel mix we run. I didnt change anything and it was down on power.
 
Joesixpack said:
Lets just nip this silly idea in the bud. Until you can flow fuel like this in the short window we have there's no way in hell to come close to the power/weight ratio the top fuel guys are at.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGTbQuhhluY
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It can be done. Just have to get over the idea using pumps to move the fuel.


are we racing based on fuel type, or are we racing based on ignition type?

I think we need to give up on conventional fuel metering and figure out how to run it like top fuel, with one long injection event per cylinder under power.
 
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Top fuel engine is loading fuel the whole time the intake valve is open AND its oxygenated! Diesel's working on 30 degrees crank (great) to 60 degrees ($hitty) to inject fuel.
 
Fahlin Racing said:
What about how Syndiesel is being made? From their website

Syndiesel.com


Is 60 Cetane the peak or what? Since it seems to be the combustion improver for any grade, brand or purpose. No matter which brand we have a uncontrolled burn cycle after injection.
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Biodiesel from animal fat has a cetane rating around 60 as well.
biggy238 said:
It can be done. Just have to get over the idea using pumps to move the fuel.


are we racing based on fuel type, or are we racing based on ignition type?

I think we need to give up on conventional fuel metering and figure out how to run it like top fuel, with one long injection event per cylinder under power.
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Being able to supply the fuel isn't the issue, the type of fuel is the issue.

Nitromethane supplies it's own oxygen and has a stoich of around 1.7:1.

Diesel is a hydrocarbon so it does not contain oxygen and has a stoich of around 14.7:1.

You can pump all the fuel you want but without the oxygen to burn it you will not get anywhere.
 
Diesel Tech said:
If you have to change the fuel to run the RPM then you are no longer DIESEL racing, so the whole point of calling it a diesel goes right out the window. Might as well just call it what it is, FUEL racing! I want to see a Fuel Diesel go compete with a Fuel Gas class, now doesn't that sound stupid!
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The fuel source isn't really relevant as long as it's still compression ignition. What constitutes "diesel" fuel? Any heavy fuel oil? Does it have to be from petroleum?

The term diesel generally jus refers to compression ignition IC engine. This why they say a spark ignition engine is "dieseling" when it's detonating.

That's just my opinion though.
 
Durallymax said:
The fuel source isn't really relevant as long as it's still compression ignition. What constitutes "diesel" fuel? Any heavy fuel oil? Does it have to be from petroleum?

The term diesel generally jus refers to compression ignition IC engine. This why they say a spark ignition engine is "dieseling" when it's detonating.

That's just my opinion though.
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So then what you guys are trying to say is that there is no difference between gasoline, alcohol or nitromethane...... try and get that by a NHRA, Nascar, Formula 1 or any other real racing organization inspector!

If your going to call it DIESEL racing then you need to be using DIESEL fuel. I am all for moving forward but not to the level that some people are doing today with using a splash of diesel fuel mixed with 80 + % of something else, that isn't DIESEL any longer. If you guys cannot see it, then we might as well take a top fuel car and add 10 oz of diesel to the tank and call it a diesel too!
 
Diesel Tech said:
So then what you guys are trying to say is that there is no difference between gasoline, alcohol or nitromethane...... try and get that by a NHRA, Nascar, Formula 1 or any other real racing organization inspector!

If your going to call it DIESEL racing then you need to be using DIESEL fuel. I am all for moving forward but not to the level that some people are doing today with using a splash of diesel fuel mixed with 80 + % of something else, that isn't DIESEL any longer. If you guys cannot see it, then we might as well take a top fuel car and add 10 oz of diesel to the tank and call it a diesel too!
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They can all be compressed until they explode can't they?
And no-one was screaming "oh ****! You can't go down the track with that, it's not gasoline!"? You can't make 1400bhp on 1.5l because it's not burning gasoline.


A diesel engine is only categorized as a compression ignition engine. Coal dust, kerosene, gasoline, ethanol, all those exotic fuels. Still a diesel engine.

If we are going to be bound by 60-30 degrees of crank rotation for DI, then it's over before it's begun.
 
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Diesel Tech said:
So then what you guys are trying to say is that there is no difference between gasoline, alcohol or nitromethane...... try and get that by a NHRA, Nascar, Formula 1 or any other real racing organization inspector!

If your going to call it DIESEL racing then you need to be using DIESEL fuel. I am all for moving forward but not to the level that some people are doing today with using a splash of diesel fuel mixed with 80 + % of something else, that isn't DIESEL any longer. If you guys cannot see it, then we might as well take a top fuel car and add 10 oz of diesel to the tank and call it a diesel too!
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DIESEL fuel goes in DIESEL engines.

True story.
 
Does anyone know if anyone has ever tried injecting nitro in diesel engine; similar to methanol injection?
 
RyanMayo said:
Does anyone know if anyone has ever tried injecting nitro in diesel engine; similar to methanol injection?
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I think Scott Bentz tried it years ago on his dragster. As I recall some distribution problems led to some melted pistons, injectors, etc.
 
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