Transmission Guru's Help needed

BowtiedCTD said:
Found out today the transmission was never built properly, direct drum piston only had 9 spring in it causing the piston to engage prematurely burning the clutches and not causing the temps to rise. Thanks Goerend, definitely top notch quality work.
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Are you running a stock piston in direct?
 
Transmission has a billet drum, so I will have to double check when I get home, but it is supposed to be billet piston as well.
 
Ok, stock piston uses 9 springs and the billet pistons I've put in use 10. I doubt that is the issue with burning direct clutches unless you have a bad bind up or flare along with it. I'm no pro at this though.
 
mathews8pt said:
Ok, stock piston uses 9 springs and the billet pistons I've put in use 10. I doubt that is the issue with burning direct clutches unless you have a bad bind up or flare along with it. I'm no pro at this though.
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The number of springs installed depends on builder, rpm, and application. The two builders I have talked to that do it for a living(not Dave), have said no less than 12 on anything over stock, more is better. The local builder said even Chrysler packed the drum full on the 429 Hemi's 727 from the factory. Both builders agreed that this would cause the direct drive to fry. Our dad noticed on his truck a difference going to more springs as well and he has a baby 215 engine. So we will see how this works as I trust these two builders much more than Dave.
 
Dave built the broken one that they currently dismantling. See above pics.
 
zstroken said:
I understand that. I am saying plenty of higher HP, heavier weight vehicles running lots of HP build by Dave.
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That's fine, then please explain why this transmission has been in his shop 3 times and he has failed to fix that or any of the issues involved in HIS builds? Oh and never once asked for warranty and paid each and ever bill they gave us. Right now ATS is looking like a much better route than Dave.

And BTW that's #1.
 
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BowtiedCTD said:
That's fine, then please explain why this transmission has been in his shop 3 times and he has failed to fix that or any of the issues involved in HIS builds? Oh and never once asked for warranty and paid each and ever bill they gave us. Right now ATS is looking like a much better route than Dave.

And BTW that's #1.
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Maybe your just not living right? :( I do know I have used Dave's parts in numerous transmissions, and they just are beat on and keep coming back. I have 4+ seasons of pulling on a convertor, 3 seasons on a transmission, etc.
Can't explain it, I don't know whole situation. Sometimes things just don't work. I know you haven't had the best of luck.

What is #1?
 
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I'm not arguing, just trying to understand why the directs are burning up here. The springs simply hold the piston off the clutches when direct is not engaged. So besides effecting shift timing(apply of direct) how would they cause direct to burn up? Assuming there is no bind up on the 2-3 then I don't see how there should be a problem with the springs. Its not like direct is released for the next gear. I could be totally off here though???
 
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mathews8pt said:
I'm not arguing, just trying to understand why the directs are burning up here. The springs simply hold the piston off the clutches when direct is not engaged. So besides effecting shift timing(apply of direct) how would they cause direct to burn up? Assuming there is no bind up on the 2-3 then I don't see how there should be a problem with the springs. Its not like direct is released for the next gear. I could be totally off here though???
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As the builder locally explained it to me cause I didn't understand either at first. When the shafts are spinning the oil collects on the sides of the piston. This causes the piston to partially engage. The centripetal force pushes the piston against the springs and if there aren't enough to hold it back it partially engages the clutch pack and nets a slipping clutch pack and a destroyed drive pack.
 
Ok, let me get this straight. This tranny has never worked right, ever, in this car and with this case? It has been through several converters and valve bodies with no luck? It has been dynoed with success as well as the tc's? You ahve installed your parts in other vehicles and they worked? And you keep burning direct clutches and no stall? So how in the he** can you blame anyone for any of this? There is definately something weird going on, but if all parts passed on a dyno test, then doesnt work in your car, how are you gonna blame the tranny builder?
 
BowtiedCTD said:
Found out today the transmission was never built properly, direct drum piston only had 9 spring in it causing the piston to engage prematurely burning the clutches and not causing the temps to rise. Thanks Goerend, definitely top notch quality work.
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This has absolutely nothing to do with a failed clutch pack. We run 9 springs in our tranny with billet drum and piston. Here is what the clutches look like after 3 years of 12-1400 hp.

[ame="http://s350.photobucket.com/user/blacksdieselperf/media/IMAG0513.jpg.html"]IMAG0513.jpg Photo by blacksdieselperf | Photobucket[/ame]
 
BowtiedCTD said:
That's fine, then please explain why this transmission has been in his shop 3 times and he has failed to fix that or any of the issues involved in HIS builds? Oh and never once asked for warranty and paid each and ever bill they gave us. Right now ATS is looking like a much better route than Dave.

And BTW that's #1.
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Wait until people find out who really built this transmission.
:poke:
 
Blacksdieselhp said:
Ok, let me get this straight. This tranny has never worked right, ever, in this car and with this case? It has been through several converters and valve bodies with no luck? It has been dynoed with success as well as the tc's? You ahve installed your parts in other vehicles and they worked? And you keep burning direct clutches and no stall? So how in the he** can you blame anyone for any of this? There is definately something weird going on, but if all parts passed on a dyno test, then doesnt work in your car, how are you gonna blame the tranny builder?
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There's a **** load of false info in this thread.
 
I'll hop on in and say the springs have nothing to do with it. You have a different issue, more spring just disengages faster. I built my own trans so I'm unbiased here...
 
First of all Jim, Goerend built this trans the last time and assembled it. They dyno'd the trans and converter seperately, and said they worked. They never dyno'd them together to see if there was any stall. We put the car back together last fall and still had the same luck. No stall. Swapped valve bodies, with the trans in the car, ran pressure checks before and after, still no stall. We than were directed to crack check the input shaft and swap cases. When we tore it apart we found burnt clutches. Again. If you think Dave didn't assemble it then that's your dumbass opinion.
 
Blacksdieselhp said:
Ok, let me get this straight. This tranny has never worked right, ever, in this car and with this case? It has been through several converters and valve bodies with no luck? It has been dynoed with success as well as the tc's? You ahve installed your parts in other vehicles and they worked? And you keep burning direct clutches and no stall? So how in the he** can you blame anyone for any of this? There is definately something weird going on, but if all parts passed on a dyno test, then doesnt work in your car, how are you gonna blame the tranny builder?
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This tranny worked fine until we burnt up the forward clutch pack around 4 years ago. Back then it would stall 2200rpm. After that we could never get it to stall at all. Yes, I had Dave repair/rebuild it right after the initial failure and we have been fighting the no stall issue ever since. He couldn't figure it out either. I know he was super busy and was tired of dealing with it. I've purchased different torque converters to try and figure out WTF the problem was. Same with valve bodies. I have a Goerend 3k TC sitting here that has dyno time and has been installed in a stock 95 dodge 47rh to verify the trans would stall. It did. The trans in this car won't. We're just trying to fix it. After the last go around Dave wants nothing to do with it. This isn't meant to be a Dave bashing thread. It's just a thread of trying to figure out why the fuk this thing won't work. It'd be nice to be able to leave the line above 1200rpm. Who wants to argue that?
 
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TheWanderer said:
If there was leakage to the tcc circuit creating a partial apply, the forward clutches would be dragging in park and would be roasted in short order.
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Wanderer, do you have a good way of checking for this. You might be on to something here. The over drive clutches are burnt too. This doesn't add up. The trans always has good line pressure. We've watched the data logs to make sure we weren't missing something.
 
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