upgraded ecm for the vp's!

crackerman said:
Ecven if the pump ran dry around 4300 rpm on a good day, then timing should still be up there, not pulled back. Even if it is defueled a bit, there is still potential to make power with timing, it may not be as much that high up in the rev range due to camshaft selection and head flow, but it would keep the truck from falling on its face and then recovering out of a bog.

TDtuning, there is an ecu or two available as well as a vp44 pump to examine electronics, and I am sure somebody close to you may even let you borrow a running truck. Even though we may not have an origial file from the truck.
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You think? Even after peak torque is reached, timing should start to fall off, so boost and rpm can create cylinder pressure. P Pumps don't have the same pressure as a VP does, right?
 
ThrottleJockey said:
Hi Mike, I'm the guy who has been E mailing you. Look in post #170 at the link to the DTR, (Diesel Truck Resource) thread. All of the links in it are dead but the guy definately speaks your language, I actually read all post by that particular member, his handle is JDonoghue, and I was hoping he could tell you something in the link given to us by Bosshogg.

I have an ECM out of a 2000 Cummins I could send you to hack, I bought it back when my CaTCHER ECM took a dump on me as a spare.

Thanks, man.
Brian.
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Hi Brian,

I came across and read through part of the JDonoghue thread. He hasn't posted in a couple of years so I wouldn't be surprised if he just has a new screen name or doesn't post anymore and someone paid him to shut up and work for them. Regardless, he seems like a very knowledgeable person. I'm not sure if I can compete with his development schedule, but I can at least look into it and see what might be involved.

The issue that I'm having right now is that there just seems to be relatively little information available to me right now. I've been reading some posts saying you need to bend the rear cover of the ECU in order to get to some screws or something and that doesn't sit so well with me, especially on a borrowed ECU. Even if you have a bad ECU around that I could read (The ECU shouldn't have to power up to get a BDM read) it would tell me more than I know now. Just to eliminate RPM limitations in the ECU, I don't think I need to do a full disassembly, but we shall see I suppose.

I do have concerns that the pump has something to do with it. The VP44 is a much different animal than the VP37. The VP37 actually has very little in terms of electronics inside. It has a quantity adjuster which is essentially a servo that actuates the control collar like the governor assembly would on a VE pump. Otherwise, there is fuel temp sensor, timing piston control solenoid, and stop solenoid. I might be forgetting something. In any case, I don't think it is nearly as involved as the VP44, so that is something to consider.
 
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ThrottleJockey said:
And do you know who this guy is? Please tell us and I pray he has a puller or Drag racer all set up ready to beta test.
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Am just trying to throw out ideas, fuel injection shops must bench test vp44's somehow to know they are working properly, they could probably figure out if the pump is physically able to supply fuel at 5000 rpm
 
vwmikel said:
Hi Brian,

I came across and read through part of the JDonoghue thread. He hasn't posted in a couple of years so I wouldn't be surprised if he just has a new screen name or doesn't post anymore and someone paid him to shut up and work for them. Regardless, he seems like a very knowledgeable person. I'm not sure if I can compete with his development schedule, but I can at least look into it and see what might be involved.

The issue that I'm having right now is that there just seems to be relatively little information available to me right now. I've been reading some posts saying you need to bend the rear cover of the ECU in order to get to some screws or something and that doesn't sit so well with me, especially on a borrowed ECU. Even if you have a bad ECU around that I could read (The ECU shouldn't have to power up to get a BDM read) it would tell me more than I know now. Just to eliminate RPM limitations in the ECU, I don't think I need to do a full disassembly, but we shall see I suppose.

I do have concerns that the pump has something to do with it. The VP44 is a much different animal than the VP37. The VP37 actually has very little in terms of electronics inside. It has a quantity adjuster which is essentially a servo that actuates the control collar like the governor assembly would on a VE pump. Otherwise, there is fuel temp sensor, timing piston control solenoid, and stop solenoid. I might be forgetting something. In any case, I don't think it is nearly as involved as the VP44, so that is something to consider.
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great info thanks
 
vwmikel said:
Hi Brian,

I came across and read through part of the JDonoghue thread. He hasn't posted in a couple of years so I wouldn't be surprised if he just has a new screen name or doesn't post anymore and someone paid him to shut up and work for them. Regardless, he seems like a very knowledgeable person. I'm not sure if I can compete with his development schedule, but I can at least look into it and see what might be involved.

The issue that I'm having right now is that there just seems to be relatively little information available to me right now. I've been reading some posts saying you need to bend the rear cover of the ECU in order to get to some screws or something and that doesn't sit so well with me, especially on a borrowed ECU. Even if you have a bad ECU around that I could read (The ECU shouldn't have to power up to get a BDM read) it would tell me more than I know now. Just to eliminate RPM limitations in the ECU, I don't think I need to do a full disassembly, but we shall see I suppose.

I do have concerns that the pump has something to do with it. The VP44 is a much different animal than the VP37. The VP37 actually has very little in terms of electronics inside. It has a quantity adjuster which is essentially a servo that actuates the control collar like the governor assembly would on a VE pump. Otherwise, there is fuel temp sensor, timing piston control solenoid, and stop solenoid. I might be forgetting something. In any case, I don't think it is nearly as involved as the VP44, so that is something to consider.
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I have an ECU you could do whatever you want to with. PM me with contact info and I'll send it your way
 
vwmikel said:
Hi Brian,

I came across and read through part of the JDonoghue thread. He hasn't posted in a couple of years so I wouldn't be surprised if he just has a new screen name or doesn't post anymore and someone paid him to shut up and work for them. Regardless, he seems like a very knowledgeable person. I'm not sure if I can compete with his development schedule, but I can at least look into it and see what might be involved.

The issue that I'm having right now is that there just seems to be relatively little information available to me right now. I've been reading some posts saying you need to bend the rear cover of the ECU in order to get to some screws or something and that doesn't sit so well with me, especially on a borrowed ECU. Even if you have a bad ECU around that I could read (The ECU shouldn't have to power up to get a BDM read) it would tell me more than I know now. Just to eliminate RPM limitations in the ECU, I don't think I need to do a full disassembly, but we shall see I suppose.

I do have concerns that the pump has something to do with it. The VP44 is a much different animal than the VP37. The VP37 actually has very little in terms of electronics inside. It has a quantity adjuster which is essentially a servo that actuates the control collar like the governor assembly would on a VE pump. Otherwise, there is fuel temp sensor, timing piston control solenoid, and stop solenoid. I might be forgetting something. In any case, I don't think it is nearly as involved as the VP44, so that is something to consider.
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I have an ECU and an EDC on top of a complete VP44 that you may do with what you will. They are both quite expendable. I have a CaTCHER and a HRVP-44 on my truck that are running. So no core concerns at all.
 
Ok, I just need one ECU for now. I think I'd rather get started on the code and see where it leads for the time being. If I can at least get a full BDM read I can see about the possibilities of OBD flash support.
 
ThrottleJockey said:
You think? Even after peak torque is reached, timing should start to fall off, so boost and rpm can create cylinder pressure. P Pumps don't have the same pressure as a VP does, right?
Click to expand...

i am not saying they will support big power up in the rev range, but with the possibility of timing staying high, and fuel dropping off, you might maintain power, instead of it falling on its face like they do when both fuel and timing are pulled.

and as slow as diesel burns, more rpms + needs more timing.
 
Charger said:
Am just trying to throw out ideas, fuel injection shops must bench test vp44's somehow to know they are working properly, they could probably figure out if the pump is physically able to supply fuel at 5000 rpm
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Hell, I thought you really had someone in mind....

vwmikel said:
Ok, I just need one ECU for now. I think I'd rather get started on the code and see where it leads for the time being. If I can at least get a full BDM read I can see about the possibilities of OBD flash support.
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Please E mail me your drop address and I will send it along....

crackerman said:
i am not saying they will support big power up in the rev range, but with the possibility of timing staying high, and fuel dropping off, you might maintain power, instead of it falling on its face like they do when both fuel and timing are pulled.

and as slow as diesel burns, more rpms + needs more timing.
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I respectfully disagree, but keep throwin 'em out there. Your'e probably right...I dunno...
 
No matter how this turns out I must say thanks to you guys trying to make this happen:Cheer:.:clap:
 
roachie said:
Or you can extend the gear case toward the drivers fender and use a crank gear with bearings pressed in to drive them. The lines can be used with either a T-fitting or them both welded together.


Having a board to split the driver signal would be the hardest part.



(yes I have put thought into this, yes I may do it)


You need to remember that CR's are limited to 4k in most cases.
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Ive been thinking of the same thing for the past few years. Just havent had the time or place to work on it yet.:Cheer:
 
How about this for an idea...

scab a FPCM (Fuel Pump Control Module) from an Audi 2.4 TDI VP44 onto the mechanical portion of a Hot Rod VP44 during the build up of that particular pump.

Merge the fueling tables of the Audi 2.4 and the ISB5.9 into one ECM...tweak as necessary to make the powerband seamless from idle to 4500....or higher

Ding Done!!
 
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Peak Torque on the 2.5 TDI is @~ 2400 rpm
Peak HP on the 2.5 TDI is @~4200

Fuel shutoff is ~4500

the pump will spin fast enough...with a FASS or Mechanical Fuel pump...fuel flow should be enough to keep it happy.

with the larger CTD rotor assy in the pump and the pulsewidths modified to deliver a higher fuel volume...BINGO
 
Diesel Freak said:
How about this for an idea...

scab a FPCM (Fuel Pump Control Module) from an Audi 2.4 TDI VP44 onto the mechanical portion of a Hot Rod VP44 during the build up of that particular pump.

Merge the fueling tables of the Audi 2.4 and the ISB5.9 into one ECM...tweak as necessary to make the powerband seamless from idle to 4500....or higher

Ding Done!!
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If it can be done then I probably can do it. I've tuned these cars before.
 
Diesel Freak said:
How about this for an idea...

scab a FPCM (Fuel Pump Control Module) from an Audi 2.4 TDI VP44 onto the mechanical portion of a Hot Rod VP44 during the build up of that particular pump.

Merge the fueling tables of the Audi 2.4 and the ISB5.9 into one ECM...tweak as necessary to make the powerband seamless from idle to 4500....or higher

Ding Done!!
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..You mean higher as in the Audi TDI 2.5 V6 redline of 6000......NICE!!!

Diesel Freak said:
Peak Torque on the 2.5 TDI is @~ 2400 rpm
Peak HP on the 2.5 TDI is @~4200

Fuel shutoff is ~4500

the pump will spin fast enough...with a FASS or Mechanical Fuel pump...fuel flow should be enough to keep it happy.

with the larger CTD rotor assy in the pump and the pulsewidths modified to deliver a higher fuel volume...BINGO
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If Mike gets us here to 4500, I'm slappin' on a Redline box for another 500-1000, I hope....

vwmikel said:
If it can be done then I probably can do it. I've tuned these cars before.
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This is why I've been buggin the hell outta Mike here at TD TUNING.COM. IF there is one guy on to help us do this...THIS is the guy!:evil If your'e gonna pay someone to teach you to play basketball, I'm gettin" Micheal Jordan!
 
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I think it will be similar to a jessup tuned ecm in means of power if it were to work. It would still be necessary to tap the pump, there is nothing around that.
 
Ive run/running jessups tune. Its not all that. I believe its just the 275 tune. Jessup is just about the reliabality of the pump, not performance. Theres only one person that was able to use his computer to play with the ecm and his truck acted just like the redline. It would studder a little then go to about 4200rpm. It was controllable in the upper rpms though, not like some of the boxes.
 
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