What is the BEST injector???

DTanklage said:
see, there ya go i was wrong again

didnt really see any sort of chart (with csa n such) but i only looked at the first page

the chart from the first gen site looks something like this:



stock 1st gen inj - 6x.009" = .000380" total cross sectional area

2nd gen 215 tips - 4x010 = .000314(17% smaller than stock) and/or 5x.009?

non ic inj - 4x12 = .000452 (19% larger than ic inj)

185's = smaller than stock

190's = smaller than stock

230's = ?

300's = ?

ddp stg III = 50 LPM (liter per minute) 5 hole extrude hone inj

330's - 5x11 = .000474 (20% larger than stock)

2nd gen 370's - 5x12 = .000565 (48% larger than stock)

ddp stg IV = 55 LPM (only 10% larger than stg III's) 5 holes <.013

pods - 4x14 = .000615 (62% larger than stock)

2nd gen 435's - 5x014 = .000769 (twice as large as stock)


custom injectors -

6x13 = .000795

5x15 = .000882

6x14 = .000923

5x16 = .001005

6x15 = .001059

5x17 = .001134 (300% larger than stock)

6x16 = .001206

5x18 = .001272

6x17 = .001360

5x19 = .001416

6x18 = .001526 (400% larger than stock)

5x20 = .001570 (josh ayers custom p-pump inj)

6x20 = .001884 (500% larger than stock)

5x22 = .001900

5x24 = .002261

6x22 = .002280 (600% larger than stock)
Click to expand...

you can tell its for first gen stuff cuz (and old) they dont even have 5x.025 on there

the nay sayers prolly convinced the author from updating the chart

in the lovely way that they do...[/QUOTE]

I know that you are already aware of this, but for the benefit of others, size is not the only consideration. Measuring the holes will only confuse things because alot of injectors are flow matched by light extrude hone. The holes will measure the same, but they will make more power and/or smoke.
 
I must say I am really leaning tords the F1's. Just not sure about witch ones. Mach 4's or 5's.
 
but thats according to you ron

according to the next guy that same 'flow matched' injector has less pintle lift, less pop, and will leak like a chevrolet

lol

i dont know that cross sectional area cares if it was created by media or edm

pretty sure its just a valve - like the orfice in a nitrous solenoid

minus the angles
 
Not happy at all with the DDP's in my buddys VE 12v, but very impressed by the F1 Mach 6's in my brothers truck. He ran a 12.8 on the first pass with those. I know thats not a fair comparison but thats all I know...
 
DTanklage said:
but thats according to you ron

according to the next guy that same 'flow matched' injector has less pintle lift, less pop, and will leak like a chevrolet

lol

i dont know that cross sectional area cares if it was created by media or edm

pretty sure its just a valve - like the orfice in a nitrous solenoid

minus the angles
Click to expand...

Interesting Don. There is no sense in me posting anymore. You know everything. Perhaps you should get a 1-800 number.
 
RonA said:
Interesting Don. There is no sense in me posting anymore. You know everything. Perhaps you should get a 1-800 number.
Click to expand...

plz read it again ron

i said 'lol'

'i dont know'

and 'pretty sure'...

what i really meant was "Hone size is hone size, there are many other variables, but 0.012" is still 0.012" whether EDMed or Extrude Honed. Nozzle geometry, lift increase, opening pressure, and interior body modifications make up much more of the differences."

rofl

i like you ron and weigh your testing and findings heavy - u no dumby

was not taking a dig at you or trying to sound like a know it all, was just saying that others will tell it different than you just did

that is all

sorry if it didnt come out right


ps - weston, if someone ever makes a easy to read inj size chart it would be good if you explained that stuff, and maybe even threw some numbers out there. like in a 5x12 these variables could result in +/-25 hp (or what ever it is)

in a larger inj like a 5x18 these could mean +/-100 hp (or what ever it is)
 
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I run JL injectors and I will always run them. On my second set now have nothing bad to say..
 
Any links to the JL injectors? & how to they compar to the F1 injectors? I didnt start this thread to start a pissing match. I started it so when i do fork out X amount of $$$$ I will be making an educated purchase & know what I am getting, Not just fliping a coin & hoping for the best. Thanks for your input
 
The hole size in the Mach 4, 5, 6, and 7's are the same size. The injectors are rated at over a 100hp difference. Pretty cool magic huh!?!

The injectors that are in my 02 have over 110,000 miles on them. Somewhere around 140,000 I think. They started life as a Mach 4, and then after I put twins on the truck I decided I wanted more fuel. I sent them to Don and he made them into Mach 6+'s and they have been that way for the last few years. They have not even been out of the truck since they were upgraded to Mach 6+'s.

I have over 1,800 1/4 mile passes, often either towing my travel trailer to races or my 05. I live at a pretty high altitude, and daily drive either the 02 or the 05 (it's a hard decision!).

I am not un-happy at all with the route I took, and would suggest you do the same. Buy a set of Mach 4's and see what happens in the future.

Paul
 
Moper Man have you talked to Weston (Smokem). I have talked to Doug and Jim have heard great things baout his work. I also have had Mach injectors and liked them very well.
 
you are so far outta the bowl at 22° (if you really have it at 22°) that it aint funny

hows ur oil look?
 
Looks no different then it did when I ran it at 19*. All I have to say is that it runs great. Smoke is way down even with the extra fuel I put to it. egts are way down. Yeah I am having a hard time finding the down side of having my timing at 22*
 
DTanklage said:
check the sticky...

the injector chart

wont tell ya how much they are gonna smoke but at least you'll know how the tip sizes compare from manuf to manuf

injectors are almost as bad as s-300 turbos...they wont just tell ya what size they are,.,.,.that would be too easy...every company has to use different names

almost like they did it on purpose


*oh yea, no one ever made one for here

sorry
Click to expand...

The problem with hole size and number is they do not tell the whole story..... A great example is F1 Mach 4, 5, and 6 injectors all have the same number and size of holes yet the HP difference is 150 for the Mach 4 and 220 for the Mach 6.

Doug
 
Mopar Man said:
How much more smoke will the Mach 5's or 6's make over the 4's? A huge amount more or just a little more???
Click to expand...


The 5's and 6's do smoke more, just how much has tons of variables. The key to a great running truck is the right combination of parts. Going bigger than needed only increases heat, turbo lag, and smoke. With your current turbo the 4's will be your best bet......

Doug
 
It does seem strange. But i have pin gauged every set of injectors i have bought. Fact is the injectors I ran at 490hp with my towing setup had the same size holes as the injectors I run now. I'm pretty confidant these will see over 900 if I take the rpm up(been shutting it down too early, 3200rpm).
 
Smokem said:
I believe you on the hone size Ron, I just tire of hearing how "magical" things are.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand what difference it makes..... I was just pointing out that there is more to making an injector make HP than just making the holes larger. I have no idea what makes the HP difference between M4's, M5's and M6's I just know that there is a difference. Don and I are good friends and I have never asked him what he does different between these injectors because it doesn't matter to me, what matters is that they perform.

Doug
 
what can he do???

i think that is what weston was getting at

there aint no magic

lift and pop and some holes

and maybe some enlarging of the passages when he holes get so big
 
DTanklage said:
what can he do???

i think that is what weston was getting at

there aint no magic

lift and pop and some holes

and maybe some enlarging of the passages when he holes get so big
Click to expand...

Nobody said magic...... What was said is there is more to making a performance injector than just making the holes bigger.
 
DTanklage said:
what can he do???

i think that is what weston was getting at

there aint no magic

lift and pop and some holes

and maybe some enlarging of the passages when he holes get so big
Click to expand...


I

think it's

a

little more

than

that...:bang
 
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