Zinc additive

I have not done any testing with that Michael. I have to say that I don't know the chemical make-up of every diesel oil out there. We have been doing some testing but there is no way I can test them all. If you would like to take a sample, add the zinc, drive around for 20 min, take another sample, I would be happy to have them analyzed and post the data for the premium blue. If you are down for this , I can send some samples out today.

Zach
 
I have a pull this weekend and after that i will be changing the oil..

Send me the Chit and ill test without it, then ill add the New additive,then take another...
 
Gene, I ran several pints of ZDDP in my truck the last 2 changes solely because I had the rocker wear Zach mentioned. My truck only has 25K on it and the wear on the rockers look like they've been in for 125K.

I'm hoping it will help to coat them a little better and slow down their wear. Apparently the several different oils I've used ( all quality brands ) weren't cutting it

here's a sample I just got back. Some levels are very high due to the ZDDP, others are still a little high from break in. This was using Schaeffers 7000. I plan to do one next without the ZDDP to see what the levels will be like

oilreport.jpg
 
Triton, It looks like your zinc and phosphorous are very high. This is ideal for combating the galling on rockers and cam wear. To be completely fair, as far as data is concerned, if you do a test next oil change, your zinc will still show fairly high. The only way to get a good read is to test before any zinc is added. After the fact, you will have cross contamination due to the way that zinc reacts and clings to the internal engine parts. It might take a few oil changes without using zinc to get a good read for a baseline.

high finance- Your zinc is in the mail. You can either mail the sample to me, or send them in and get them analyzed. Let me know!



Zach
 
If you need a sample with Cen-Pe-Co I could do it for you. I will be switching to Rotella before TS but still have Cen-Pe-Co in there. Just let me know.
 
Hamilton Cams said:
By your craze comment it sounds like you think of zinc as snake oil. Do you not agree that there is a need for it?

To be honest with you Sledpuller, some people are not savvy as to oil requirements.


Zach
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No, zinc additive is not snake oil, its a proven additive thats been in use for years.
My eyebrows were raised when I saw a "Snaky Marketer"(not you, Zach) hard at work peddling yet another "custom brewed" product that only he can make, savior of the planet etc, blah, blah. I wrote it off as yet another one of his schemes, let the lemmings follow him.
After you posted, I started looking into it.


Cam break in is critical, and I would not recommend any product, additive or oil, over a cam sellers recommendations.

But yes, the older Amsoil products, such as 15-40 AME have not changed. Same amount of zinc as they always have had.
More zinc than the new oils?
Yes.
Is it enough to break in a custom cam and valvetrain?
And, Is it enough to sustain the higher loads associated with high performance valve springs?

I don't know.

If I was in this situation, I think I would avoid the new oils, and buy a can of additive.

FYI, an Amsoil TSB dated 11-3-08. Obviously its a big enough problem, other than Hi-Po Diesel, that they looked into it.


The file is hard to read, try the link:
https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB MO-2007-08-08 Flat Tappet.pdf
 

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triton said:
Gene, I ran several pints of ZDDP in my truck the last 2 changes solely because I had the rocker wear Zach mentioned. My truck only has 25K on it and the wear on the rockers look like they've been in for 125K.

I'm hoping it will help to coat them a little better and slow down their wear. Apparently the several different oils I've used ( all quality brands ) weren't cutting it

here's a sample I just got back. Some levels are very high due to the ZDDP, others are still a little high from break in. This was using Schaeffers 7000. I plan to do one next without the ZDDP to see what the levels will be like

oilreport.jpg
Click to expand...

Ty, any idea what the base number for zinc was when the oil was new before use or the addition of an additive? Without that number, its hard to judge how much the additive is helping.
 
06 diesel- hit me up at TS

Gene,
I know the market is flooded with products that promise an engine rebuild in a can and the like. I know that there are some people that are siezing the opportunity to make a buck off of peoples ignorance pertaining to lubrication, oils film strength and chemical make up. There is a definate need for this additive from my standpoint. I can give case and point on siezed camshafts, and premature lobe wear. What I am trying to accomplish is Zero comeback and minimal issues pertaining to cam break in. This additive ensures break in is no sweat. This is not something I cooked up. It is from a trusted manufacturer with a quality product. We used a bearing load tester to test just about every additive imaginable. After the tests, I changed my thinking on additives quite a bit. Although there are hundreds of additives only a few actually do what they claim. It was surprising to see some really expensive name brand products come up lacking. One product came out as the ultimate additive. Had the highest film strength of anything I tested, almost double in fact. The sad thing is that it is marketed by a questionable individual with a used car salesman type attitude, and it is hard to get it into the USA. After checking straight additives we diluted the top three into running vehicles after a few minutes we took oil samples and rechecked our findings in a real world fashion. I can promise you for the cost you have the most effective, tried and true additive we could come up with.

Gene would you PM me the snakey individual you were refering to? Just want to see if it is the same guy I am thinking of.

Zach
 
Hamilton Cams said:
06 What I am trying to accomplish is Zero comeback and minimal issues pertaining to cam break in. This additive ensures break in is no sweat.

This is not something I cooked up.

It is from a trusted manufacturer with a quality product.

We used a bearing load tester to test just about every additive imaginable. After the tests, I changed my thinking on additives quite a bit. Although there are hundreds of additives only a few actually do what they claim. It was surprising to see some really expensive name brand products come up lacking.



Zach
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And theres the key.

Right now, anything with ZDDP on the label will sell. Its nice to see some dealers take the high road, and not the SHAM WOW! road.
 
hey zach will geoff have some bottles will be looking to ran a zinc addtive in every oil change in my new motor. thanks shane
 
Highfinance97 said:
So do I....What do you think about Vavoline Premium Blue Zach???
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Hamilton Cams said:
I have not done any testing with that Michael. I have to say that I don't know the chemical make-up of every diesel oil out there. We have been doing some testing but there is no way I can test them all. If you would like to take a sample, add the zinc, drive around for 20 min, take another sample, I would be happy to have them analyzed and post the data for the premium blue. If you are down for this , I can send some samples out today.

Zach
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Now why wouldn't the next "GALE BANKS" test the famous Vavoline Premium Blue oil? Whats that big C for on the front of the jug? It would only make sense right? Someone get out the whistles and flutes to make this snake oil come alive!:hehe:
 

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Huh? What does having the cummins C on the front of the bottle have to do with having enough zinc in it?
 
There is no way I can test every oil out there.

Regardless of whichever brand of oil you use, it has to have a certain level of zinc to provide protection for a flat tappet cam. Newer oils designed for use with DPF's don't have adequate levels of zinc.

Larry do you know the ppm of zinc in the valvoline. If you are wanting to add to the information in this forum, by all means post up. If you are wanting to razz me because i make an additive that is needed with most modern oils, then by all means post up, I'm getting a kick out of it. Also, Why would you compare me to gale banks? I'm from Texas not cali. I guess you are entitled to your opinions. Got any other good one's? I'm sure you can think of a better name than Gale Banks.

Zach
 
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Hamilton Cams said:
There is no way I can test every oil out there.

I'm sure you can think of a better name than Gale Banks.

Zach
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How about Forest Gump, just kidding Zach when you coming up to TS, were flying up Friday. LOL
 
So, I'm assuming that running a zinc additive will make almost any major manufacturer of oil runnable. Like say rotella 15w-40 for instance. Does this eliminate the need for a racing oil like Schaeffers or something comparable??? I guess many factors could be considered here like flashpoint of oil, thicker oil like Shaeffers are similar to a 50 weight oil which would help rings, etc seal upon the build of a new engine. I guess the bottom line is, you have to think about what exactly works, the next thing is finding out where to find the best buy at. The problem with most of the high 12valve cummins engines are the washing of the cylinder walls with fuel due to extreme static timing, and big injectors. So, now we have a fuel dilution problem in the crankcase that requires oil changes more often. I haven't had experience with the high dollar racing oil, but I'm told that bearing life is pro-longed. (no copper, or signs of stress) Might be nice to run 2-3 seasons on a set of bearings than just 1. My final thought is...oil is relatively cheap compared to the price of a complete motor
 
I like Gump much better than Gale Banks. Thanks Dan. I'm heading to bloomington, IL on wednesday then TS on Thursday.


As far as the oil. This additive is going to improve an oils ability to have surface tension, and keep oil between two shearing forces. It will work with any oil, however. If I was going to run an engine hard, I would definately start with a better oil. Even though our zinc additive will afect the surface tension it is not going to help all aspects of the oil such as what temp the base oil starts to break down, or how it handles fuel dilution. Synthetics definately rate higher in these departments. If you don't mind a little extra money, look up sled puller he has some synthetics that still have really high zinc. All in one performance!

Zach
 
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